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CosmicCruiser

My father owes nearly 200k in back taxes with no assets or cash to pay it off

My father was in the beekeeping business for several years but ran into some serious bad luck between 2013 and early 2020. He went through a pretty severe depression (even spent about a week in a psychiatric facility in 2019), which made everything worse. Things started looking up in spring 2020 - we had healthy bees and a good honey production when prices weren't too bad. The problem came in October when our bank wouldn't let the bees travel from North Dakota to California unless we made an operating payment in November. We were projected to make around $470,000 in California which would've covered everything and kept the business going. Instead, the bank forced him to sell everything and took all the money from both the business sale and honey sales. Then the Farm Service Agency called in some loans because he wasn't considered a "farmer" anymore and didn't qualify for their programs. A lot of this debt had already been depreciated since he was so far behind. After paying off loans and operating costs, he got hit with a massive tax bill but had no cash left. The next year was similar because the co-op that bought his honey only paid about half upfront with the rest coming the following year - most of which went to FSA for already depreciated loans. I believe he owes somewhere between $180,000-$250,000 in back taxes. My mom works as a paraprofessional at the local school making about $24,000 a year. Dad started a repair and fabrication shop on the farm. I'm a beekeeper myself and rent shop space and equipment at the farm for around $33,000 annually. Their combined income is probably close to $130,000, but that barely covers their current obligations (at least $13,000/year to FSA), mortgage, and health costs (dad has type 2 diabetes and mom needs knee surgery). I have no idea what to do. There's no realistic way for them to pay this tax debt, and they can't even keep up with current taxes. I did get a tax attorney who managed to pause the interest on back taxes during some appeal process, but that lawyer joined a different firm that requires a $4,000 monthly retainer which is completely unaffordable. What options do they have?

Your parents are dealing with a really tough situation. Based on what you've shared, they might qualify for an Offer in Compromise (OIC) with the IRS. This is essentially a settlement where the IRS agrees to accept less than the full amount owed. The IRS looks at a taxpayer's ability to pay, income, expenses, and asset equity to determine if they qualify. From what you've described, your parents may have a good case since their income barely covers current expenses and they have health issues adding to their financial burden. Before pursuing an OIC, consider getting your parents on an Installment Agreement temporarily. This would at least keep the IRS from taking enforced collection actions while you explore options. The IRS has been more flexible with payment plans since COVID. Another option is requesting Currently Not Collectible status. If approved, the IRS temporarily stops collection activities because they recognize the taxpayer can't pay. The debt doesn't go away, but it gives breathing room. For a tax debt this size, you'll definitely need professional help, but you don't necessarily need to pay $4,000 monthly. Look into Low Income Taxpayer Clinics (LITCs) which provide free or low-cost representation. Also, some tax resolution firms work on payment plans that might be more manageable.

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Sean Doyle

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Thanks for this detailed response. Just wondering - if they apply for an Offer in Compromise, does the IRS look at my income too since I rent space from them? And what kind of percentage acceptance might they get - like would the IRS potentially settle for something like 20% of what's owed or is that unrealistic?

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The IRS generally doesn't include your income when evaluating your parents' OIC since you're not personally liable for their tax debt. They'll focus on your parents' income, assets, and ability to pay. However, the rental income your parents receive from you is counted as part of their income. For OIC acceptance rates, it varies case by case, but the IRS typically looks for the "reasonable collection potential" - what they could realistically collect over the remaining collection period. For cases with genuine hardship and limited assets like your parents, settlements for 10-30% of the original debt amount aren't uncommon. The key is thoroughly documenting their financial situation, health costs, and limited future earning potential.

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Zara Rashid

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I was in a somewhat similar situation with a substantial tax debt (though not quite as large as your parents') after my business failed in 2020. After trying to navigate the IRS maze myself, I stumbled across this AI tax document analysis service called taxr.ai that literally saved me thousands. I uploaded all my parents' tax documents, IRS notices, and financial statements, and the system analyzed everything and gave me a detailed breakdown of options specifically for their situation. It identified several deductions they'd missed and an error in how the IRS had calculated some of the penalties! The service actually found legitimate grounds for reducing about 30% of what they claimed we owed. You might want to check it out at https://taxr.ai especially since it can analyze those complex depreciation issues which sound like they contributed significantly to your parents' tax problem. It also helps prepare the documentation for an Offer in Compromise if that's the route they end up taking.

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Luca Romano

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Did you need to provide your SSN or other sensitive info to use the service? I'm always sketched out by tax services online after hearing horror stories from friends.

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Nia Jackson

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How long did the analysis take? Because we're trying to figure out options quickly before the IRS takes further action. Also, did it help with actually communicating with the IRS or just give you information?

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Zara Rashid

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You do need to provide some information for the analysis to be accurate, but their system uses bank-level encryption and they don't store your sensitive data after completing the analysis. I was hesitant too, but they explain their security protocols clearly on their site, and they've been featured in several financial publications which gave me confidence. The initial analysis took about 48 hours for my complex situation with multiple years of issues. The system provides detailed guidance for communicating with the IRS, including templates for letters and forms specific to your situation. It doesn't communicate directly with the IRS for you, but it essentially creates a roadmap showing exactly what to do, what forms to file, what to say, and what evidence to provide. This made it much easier when I eventually worked with a tax professional, as I already understood my options and had all the documentation prepared.

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Nia Jackson

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Just wanted to update everyone. I decided to try taxr.ai after seeing the recommendation here, and wow - it was exactly what we needed! The system identified several issues with how my father's depreciation was calculated and found legitimate grounds for an abatement of penalties for the 2019 tax year based on his documented medical condition. The detailed analysis showed that about $75,000 of the tax bill might be challengeable due to improper application of farm income rules after the forced liquidation. The service generated all the documentation we needed for a Partial Dispute request and helped us prepare an Offer in Compromise application for the remainder. We're now working with a tax resolution specialist who charges a flat fee instead of that crazy monthly retainer, and he said having all this documentation organized saved us at least $3,000 in preparation costs. Thank you so much for recommending this - it's given my parents their first hope in years!

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NebulaNova

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OP, one crucial step you shouldn't overlook is actually getting through to someone at the IRS who can help. I spent MONTHS trying to resolve a large tax issue (inheritance taxes I couldn't pay) and kept hitting brick walls with automated systems and impossibly long hold times. I finally used a service called Claimyr (https://claimyr.com) that got me connected to an actual IRS agent after trying for weeks on my own. You can see how it works in this video: https://youtu.be/_kiP6q8DX5c With a debt that size, you need to talk to someone in the IRS's Hardship Division or someone who can actually make decisions about your case. Regular customer service reps often can't help with complex cases. Claimyr got me through to the right department in under an hour when I had previously wasted days on hold. Once I actually spoke with the right person, they helped set up a manageable payment plan that worked with my financial situation. For your parents, having that direct conversation about their health issues and financial circumstances could make all the difference.

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How exactly does this work? Does it just call for you or something? And isn't it just easier to have a tax attorney handle all this communication?

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Aisha Khan

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This sounds like BS honestly. The IRS is notorious for not answering phones. If this actually worked, everyone would use it. I spent 3 hours on hold last month before getting disconnected.

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NebulaNova

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It doesn't just call for you - it uses a system that navigates the IRS phone tree and holds your place in line. When an agent picks up, you get a call back immediately so you can talk directly with them. It's much more efficient than hiring an attorney just to wait on hold, especially for that initial contact that helps determine what options are available. I completely understand your skepticism - I felt the same way! The IRS answered only about 11% of calls last tax season, and wait times were ridiculous. That's exactly why this service exists. I was disconnected multiple times too before using it. The difference is their system can stay on hold indefinitely and uses some tech to navigate the constantly changing IRS phone menus. It's not magic - just a smart solution to a frustrating problem. Since the IRS is understaffed, getting through to an actual human is half the battle.

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Aisha Khan

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I need to eat my words and apologize to Profile 15. After posting my skeptical comment, I decided to try Claimyr myself since I was getting nowhere with the IRS about a penalty issue. It actually worked! After trying for weeks to get through, I was connected to an IRS representative in about 40 minutes. The representative I spoke with was able to review my account immediately and confirmed I qualified for an abatement based on my circumstances. For the OP's situation, this could be incredibly valuable. The rep I spoke with explained that cases like your parents' often qualify for special handling under financial hardship provisions, but these options are rarely offered unless you specifically ask about them. The direct conversation allowed me to explain my situation in a way that just isn't possible through forms and letters. Sorry for doubting - just wanted to share that this actually helped me resolve my issue.

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Ethan Taylor

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Has your father looked into filing for bankruptcy? I know tax debts are generally not dischargeable in bankruptcy, but there are exceptions for older tax debts that meet certain criteria. If some of these taxes are from 2013-2016, they might qualify. For tax debts to be dischargeable in Chapter 7 bankruptcy: - The taxes must be income taxes - The due date for filing the tax return was at least 3 years ago - The tax return was filed at least 2 years ago - The tax assessment was made at least 240 days ago - There was no fraud or willful evasion Even if bankruptcy doesn't eliminate all the tax debt, it might help clear other debts so they can focus on tackling the tax issue.

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CosmicCruiser

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I've actually been wondering about bankruptcy as an option. Some of the taxes are definitely from 2013-2016, so that's helpful to know. My biggest concern is that they'd lose the farm property, which is both their home and my dad's current business location (plus where I rent shop space for my beekeeping). Is there any way to protect the primary residence in bankruptcy while dealing with these tax debts?

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Ethan Taylor

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In a Chapter 7 bankruptcy, your parents might be able to protect their primary residence using homestead exemptions, which vary significantly by state. Some states like Florida and Texas have unlimited homestead exemptions, while others are more limited. If the farm is both a residence and business property, it gets more complicated. Chapter 13 bankruptcy might be a better option as it allows for a payment plan over 3-5 years and better protection of assets. This could potentially discharge some qualifying older tax debts while protecting the property. I'd recommend consulting with a bankruptcy attorney who specializes in farm businesses - many offer free initial consultations and can quickly tell you if this is a viable option for your parents' specific situation.

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Yuki Ito

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Have they looked into the IRS Fresh Start Program? My brother had a significant tax debt (about $85k) after his construction business failed, and he was able to get substantial relief through this program. The Fresh Start Program has several components that might help your parents: - Increased dollar threshold for filing tax liens - Easier access to Installment Agreements - More flexible Offer in Compromise terms - Tax lien withdrawals after payment arrangements The key is providing thorough documentation of their financial situation, medical expenses, and limited ability to pay. My brother was ultimately able to settle his $85k debt for about $32k through an Offer in Compromise.

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Carmen Lopez

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The Fresh Start Program sounds promising but remember it's not a specific program you apply for directly - it's a collection of IRS initiatives with different eligibility requirements. A $200k debt might be harder to settle than an $85k one. Still worth exploring though.

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Don't forget about potential state-level tax relief programs! When I was dealing with federal and state tax issues after a business failure, I found that my state had hardship provisions that were actually more generous than the IRS options. Depending on what state your parents live in, they might qualify for: - State tax forgiveness programs - Hardship status at the state level - Special provisions for farmers/agricultural businesses - Senior tax relief programs (if they're close to retirement age) Also, check if your state has a Taxpayer Advocate Service similar to the federal one. These advocates can sometimes help navigate both systems simultaneously and coordinate relief efforts.

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CosmicCruiser

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That's a really good point I hadn't considered. This is in North Dakota where the beekeeping operation was based, though they also operated seasonally in California. I'll definitely look into state-specific programs. Has anyone here had experience specifically with North Dakota tax relief options?

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