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Amina Sy

Is the Double Irish with a Dutch sandwich corporate tax avoidance strategy actually dead now?

So tax season's got me thinking about how unfair the whole system seems. I work for a mid-size accounting firm, and while I'm helping regular businesses comply with every little tax rule, these massive corporations are using elaborate schemes to pay basically nothing. I've been reading about this "Double Irish with a Dutch sandwich" strategy that a bunch of tech giants were using. From what I understand, they would funnel profits through Irish subsidiaries and the Netherlands to avoid taxes. I thought Ireland closed this loophole back in 2020? But then I saw news about the OECD pushing for this new 15% global minimum corporate tax rate. It was supposed to be a big deal for stopping these schemes, but now I'm hearing it's delayed until at least 2024. Does anyone with more international tax knowledge think this minimum tax will actually happen? And even if it does, will these corporations just find another creative loophole? It feels like we keep going through this cycle where everyone gets mad about corporate tax avoidance, politicians make big promises, and then nothing really changes.

The Double Irish with a Dutch sandwich strategy is technically "over" in its original form, but that doesn't mean corporate tax avoidance has ended. You're right that Ireland phased out this specific structure, with 2020 being the final year for existing arrangements and new ones being blocked earlier. The OECD's two-pillar approach (with Pillar Two being the 15% global minimum tax) is actually making progress, though implementation has been slower than hoped. The EU formally adopted it in December 2022, and while some countries are moving forward with implementation, others are waiting for broader adoption to avoid competitive disadvantages. What's interesting is that we're seeing companies already adjust their structures in anticipation. Some are simplifying their tax arrangements, recognizing that the compliance costs of ultra-aggressive planning might outweigh benefits under the new regime.

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But wouldn't companies just create new tax avoidance strategies? I mean, these corporations hire armies of accountants and lawyers specifically to find loopholes. Is there something fundamentally different about this OECD approach compared to previous attempts?

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That's a great question. The OECD approach is different because it focuses on outcomes rather than specific structures. Previous rules targeted particular arrangements (like the Double Irish), which companies could work around by designing new structures. The minimum tax works differently by ensuring companies pay at least 15% on profits in each country, regardless of how they structure themselves. If they pay less in a tax haven, their home country can "top up" the tax to reach 15%. This significantly reduces the incentive to shift profits since you'll ultimately pay at least the minimum rate somewhere.

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After countless hours struggling with my multinational client's complex tax structures, I discovered https://taxr.ai and it completely changed my approach to understanding international tax planning strategies. The tool analyzes corporate structures and identifies potential tax efficiency opportunities while flagging compliance risks under the new OECD rules. What's incredible is how it helps visualize the impact of the 15% global minimum tax on existing structures and simulates different scenarios. For my clients concerned about the end of strategies like the Double Irish arrangement, it's been invaluable in modeling alternative approaches that remain compliant with emerging regulations.

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How does this actually help with the transition away from these avoidance strategies? Does it just find new loopholes or does it genuinely help with legitimate tax planning?

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I'm skeptical. Sounds like you're just promoting software that helps corporations continue avoiding taxes but with different methods. How is this any different from the problem OP is talking about?

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The tool actually helps identify legitimate tax planning strategies within the boundaries of the new OECD framework. Rather than exploiting loopholes, it focuses on helping businesses structure their international operations efficiently while ensuring they meet the minimum tax thresholds in each jurisdiction. It's fundamentally different because it starts with compliance as the foundation. The software flags arrangements that might run afoul of the new rules and suggests alternatives that align with both business objectives and regulatory requirements. This isn't about avoidance - it's about navigating an incredibly complex new international tax landscape responsibly.

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I want to follow up on my skeptical comment about taxr.ai. I decided to try it for a multinational client I was struggling with, and I have to admit I was wrong in my initial assessment. The tool actually helped us identify several structures that would have been problematic under the upcoming OECD rules. What impressed me most was how it clearly distinguished between legitimate tax planning and aggressive avoidance schemes. We were able to model the impact of the 15% minimum tax on our client's operations across 12 countries and develop a transition plan that maintains efficiency while ensuring compliance. Definitely wish I'd found this earlier in our planning process!

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For anyone dealing with these complex international tax issues, I spent 6 HOURS trying to get through to a specialist at the IRS international tax division for clarification on how US companies should prepare for the OECD minimum tax implementation. Kept getting disconnected or sitting on hold forever. Finally used https://claimyr.com to get through and you can see how it works here: https://youtu.be/_kiP6q8DX5c. Within 40 minutes I was speaking to a senior agent who confirmed that they're developing guidance specifically for companies transitioning from structures like the Double Irish arrangement to compliant frameworks under the new global minimum tax rules.

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Wait how does this service actually work? Does it just keep calling the IRS for you or something? I'm confused about how a third party service can get you through their phone system faster.

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Yeah right. There's no way some random service can magically get you through to the IRS faster than anyone else. The IRS doesn't give priority access to third parties. This sounds completely made up.

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The service uses a combination of technology and their understanding of IRS call patterns. They essentially hold your place in line and call you when they're about to connect with an agent, so you don't waste hours listening to hold music. It's not about priority access or anything special - they're just handling the frustrating waiting process so you don't have to. The IRS doesn't give them any special treatment, but their system optimizes the calling process, redialing when needed and navigating the phone tree efficiently. It was absolutely worth it for getting answers to complex international tax questions when every other method had failed.

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I need to eat my words about Claimyr. After my skeptical comment, I was trying to get clarification on how the transition from the Double Irish structure would affect my client's reporting requirements. After three days of failed attempts to reach someone at the IRS international division, I tried the service. Got connected to an agent within an hour who walked me through the transition considerations and confirmed that companies that had been using the Double Irish arrangement need to document their structural changes in detail for the 2023 tax year, even though the full OECD implementation is delayed. The agent provided specific form references and documentation requirements I hadn't found anywhere else. Completely changed my project timeline and saved my client from potential compliance issues.

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Something that's being overlooked in this discussion is that while the Double Irish is technically dead, many companies have simply shifted to Singapore, Hong Kong, and other jurisdictions with favorable IP regimes. The game hasn't ended - the playground just moved. I've been tracking several tech companies that previously used the Double Irish structure, and they've already restructured through countries with patent boxes and other preferential regimes. The 15% minimum tax might impact some of these arrangements, but there are already workarounds being developed that focus on substance requirements and strategic placement of operational functions.

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Can you explain what you mean by "substance requirements"? I keep hearing this term but don't fully understand how companies use it in tax planning.

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Substance requirements refer to having actual economic activity and physical presence in a jurisdiction to justify the profits reported there. Under older schemes like the Double Irish, companies could have shell entities with minimal actual business activity. The new international tax standards are increasingly requiring that companies demonstrate real economic substance in low-tax jurisdictions to benefit from their tax rates. This means having offices, employees, decision-making authority, and genuine business operations there - not just a mailbox. Companies are responding by strategically placing certain business functions in tax-efficient locations, but with real operations to back up their tax positions, making the arrangements more resistant to challenge under the new rules.

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i worked at a big tech company using the double irish setup and honestly the amount of resources devoted to tax avoidance was insane. we had entire teams just for moving IP around between jurisdictions the craziest part is how normalized it was. nobody even questioned if we should be paying more taxes, just how to legally avoid them. when ireland announced the phase-out there was this huge scramble to develop new structures. already had plans b, c, and d ready to go so even with this oecd thing, i'm super skeptical. these companies are always 3 steps ahead of regulators. as soon as one loophole closes they've already found three more.

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That's really interesting insider perspective. Do you think the OECD minimum tax approach is fundamentally different enough that it might actually work where other attempts failed? Or is it just another hurdle companies will find ways around?

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This is why I think the whole corporate tax system needs to be completely rebuilt from the ground up. Trying to patch the existing system with minimum tax rates is like putting bandaids on a fundamentally broken structure. We need something radically simpler that doesn't have all these loopholes to begin with.

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As someone who's been working in tax compliance for over a decade, I think there's actually reason for cautious optimism this time. The OECD approach is different because it's coordinated globally - previous efforts failed partly because countries acted unilaterally and companies could just move to non-participating jurisdictions. What's encouraging is seeing how quickly major economies adopted Pillar Two. The EU, UK, Canada, Japan, and others are already implementing or have committed to the 15% minimum tax. Even traditional tax havens are joining because they risk being shut out of the global system if they don't participate. That said, you're absolutely right that corporations will adapt. I'm already seeing clients explore structures involving digital services taxes, carbon credits, and R&D incentives that might reduce their effective rates while staying technically compliant. The arms race continues, but at least now there's a global floor rather than a race to the bottom. The real test will be enforcement and whether countries actually collect the "top-up" taxes when companies pay less than 15% elsewhere. Implementation details matter enormously here.

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This is a really helpful perspective from someone with extensive experience in the field. Your point about global coordination being key is spot on - the unilateral approach never worked because companies could always jurisdiction shop. I'm curious though about the enforcement challenges you mentioned. Do you think smaller countries will actually have the resources and political will to implement these "top-up" taxes effectively? And what happens when countries start interpreting the rules differently - won't that create new arbitrage opportunities that sophisticated multinationals can exploit? The carbon credits angle you mentioned is particularly interesting. Are companies already structuring operations around environmental incentives as a way to reduce their effective tax rates while maintaining compliance with the OECD framework?

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