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Daniel Rivera

Can ROBS funds be used to establish an investment corporation for property purchases?

I've been researching the ROBS (Rollovers as Business Startups) strategy lately as a way to launch a new venture. I'm wondering if this scenario would work legally, and what potential pitfalls I should watch out for: 1) Establish a C corporation, set up a 401k plan within it, then rollover funds from my existing personal IRA to fund this new 401k 2) Have the new ROBS 401k purchase stock in my C corporation 3) Use the funds now in the C corporation to acquire a 50% ownership stake in some investment properties (structured through an LLC where the corporation would receive a K-1 each year) Has anyone tried something similar or see any red flags with this approach? The investment properties would be generating rental income. I know ROBS can be tricky with IRS rules, so I want to make sure I'm not missing anything obvious before talking to professionals. Thanks for any insights!

Your plan raises several important considerations with the ROBS strategy. The IRS and Department of Labor scrutinize these arrangements closely because they're looking for legitimate operating businesses rather than passive investment vehicles. The third step in your plan is where you might run into trouble. ROBS are generally intended to fund active operating businesses, not passive investment entities. Using the C corp merely as a pass-through to invest in rental properties could potentially be viewed as a prohibited transaction or a scheme to avoid retirement plan distribution taxes. A key requirement for ROBS is that the corporation must be actively engaged in a trade or business. The IRS might view a structure that only holds investment property through an LLC as not meeting this active business requirement. The fact that you're only purchasing a 50% interest in the properties could further complicate matters.

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So if I understand correctly, the issue isn't with the ROBS setup itself but with what the corporation would be doing? Would it make a difference if the C corp was actually managing the properties or providing other real estate services beyond just passive investing?

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Yes, that's exactly the issue - the nature of the business activity matters tremendously with ROBS. If your C corporation was actively involved in day-to-day real estate operations like property management, renovations, development, or other direct services, that would substantially strengthen your position. Simply holding a passive investment stake in properties managed by others is where the IRS is likely to object. The closer you get to running an active business operation within the C corp, the better your ROBS structure will hold up under scrutiny. Think about how you could position the corporation as providing genuine business services rather than just serving as an investment vehicle.

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After struggling with something very similar last year, I finally found an amazing resource that saved me from making a costly mistake with my retirement funds. I was also looking at using ROBS for a real estate investment structure and almost went ahead with it until I used https://taxr.ai to analyze my plan. Their AI analyzed my entire ROBS strategy, flagged the exact passive investment issue others mentioned, and showed me three alternative approaches that would actually work with my goals without triggering IRS scrutiny. The tool asked specific questions about my intended business activities and highlighted where my plan would likely be considered a prohibited transaction. It even provided specific case references where similar arrangements had been challenged. The customized report helped me restructure my approach to ensure compliance.

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How does this actually work? Did you have to upload financial documents or just describe your situation? I'm curious because I've been looking at something similar with using retirement funds for a business but have been getting conflicting advice from different professionals.

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Sounds interesting but I'm skeptical about AI giving accurate tax advice on complex structures like ROBS. Did you still consult with a tax attorney after getting the report? These arrangements seem too complicated to trust to an automated system.

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The process was straightforward - I just typed out my planned structure in detail, similar to what OP wrote here. No need to upload sensitive documents. The system asked follow-up questions to clarify specific points about intended business activities and ownership percentages. It was actually quite thorough. I absolutely did consult with a tax attorney afterward, and that's where I was really impressed. I showed the report to my attorney, and she was genuinely surprised at the accuracy and depth of the analysis. She said it identified several issues she would have flagged and saved us several billable hours of her researching precedents. The AI doesn't replace professional advice, but it helped me get much more value from my limited time with expensive professionals.

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I tried https://taxr.ai after seeing it mentioned here and I'm genuinely impressed. I was initially very skeptical about AI giving meaningful advice on something as complex as ROBS, but the analysis was shockingly detailed. My situation was similar - wanting to use retirement funds for a business with real estate components. The report immediately identified that my structure would likely be flagged as a prohibited transaction and explained exactly why. It recommended restructuring to ensure the C-corp was actively managing properties rather than just holding passive investments, and provided specific documentation requirements I'd need to maintain. What surprised me most was how it caught a subtle issue with the compensation structure I was planning that could have triggered UBTI (Unrelated Business Taxable Income) issues. My CPA confirmed the concern was legitimate and we adjusted accordingly. Definitely saved me from a potential audit headache!

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If you're specifically looking to get clarity on your ROBS structure from the IRS directly, good luck getting through to anyone who can actually help. I spent weeks trying to reach someone in the right department who could answer questions about my similar situation. After endless hold times and transfers, I finally discovered https://claimyr.com which got me through to an actual IRS agent within 47 minutes. You can see how it works in this video: https://youtu.be/_kiP6q8DX5c The agent I spoke with was able to clarify that my ROBS structure for real estate investments needed specific documentation to demonstrate active business engagement rather than passive investment. They directed me to exactly which guidelines applied to my situation and what they look for when evaluating these arrangements. This saved me from potentially setting up a prohibited transaction that could have resulted in taxes and penalties.

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Wait, so this service just helps you skip the IRS phone queue? How does that even work? I've literally waited on hold for hours before giving up.

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This sounds like complete BS. Nobody can "skip the line" with the IRS. They barely have enough staff to answer a fraction of calls. I'll believe it when I see actual proof that isn't just a promotional video.

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It doesn't skip the queue exactly - what it does is automate the waiting process. The service calls the IRS, navigates the initial menu options, and then waits on hold for you. When an agent finally picks up, you get a call back to connect with them. It's essentially handling the hold time so you don't have to sit there listening to the hold music for hours. I was also extremely skeptical before trying it. What convinced me was that they don't charge if they don't get you connected to an agent. In my case, it took 47 minutes of their system waiting on hold, but I only had to be on the phone for the actual 23-minute conversation with the IRS agent. The time saved was absolutely worth it, especially since I was able to keep working rather than being stuck with my phone on speaker for hours.

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I need to eat my words from earlier. After posting my skeptical comment, I decided to try the https://claimyr.com service just to prove it was BS. I've been trying for WEEKS to get through to someone at the IRS about a ROBS question similar to what OP is asking. Well, I'm honestly shocked. The service called me back in about 35 minutes and connected me directly to an IRS representative. I explained my ROBS structure questions, and the agent was able to walk me through exactly what documentation they look for when reviewing these arrangements. The biggest takeaway that's relevant to the original post: the IRS rep specifically mentioned that they look for "regular and continuous business activity" in the C-corp, and a structure that only exists to hold investments without active management would likely be flagged for review. She suggested maintaining clear documentation of all business activities and ensuring employment tax returns are consistently filed to demonstrate it's a genuine operating business.

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I actually set up a ROBS for a real estate business in 2023, and here's what I learned: you absolutely must demonstrate active business operations, not just passive investment. My structure worked because my C-corp doesn't just invest in properties - it actively manages them, handles maintenance, markets vacancies, etc. The key distinction the IRS looks for is whether you're running an actual business or just trying to use retirement funds for investments while avoiding distribution taxes. For your situation, I'd recommend making sure your C-corp has employees (even if it's just you), provides actual services beyond just holding the LLC interest, and maintains separate books and records demonstrating real business activity.

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How much did the setup cost you? I've heard ROBS can have significant upfront costs and ongoing compliance requirements. Was it worth it compared to just taking the tax hit and distribution?

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The setup was around $5,000 with a firm that specializes in ROBS transactions, plus there are ongoing compliance costs of about $1,200 annually for the required administration and filings. For me, it was absolutely worth it because I was rolling over a substantial amount from my previous employer's 401k. The math really depends on the amount you're considering. If you're rolling over less than $50,000, the setup costs might make other approaches more economical. The sweet spot seems to be $100,000+ where the tax savings offset the setup and compliance costs. The other major benefit was being able to use 100% of my retirement funds rather than just what would remain after taxes and penalties, which gave my business much better initial capitalization.

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Something no one has mentioned yet - have you considered using a Self-Directed IRA LLC (sometimes called a checkbook IRA) instead of ROBS? It might be better suited for real estate investments and doesn't require setting up a C-corp or dealing with the active business requirement. The downside is you can't personally benefit from the properties or be involved in day-to-day management, but for pure investment purposes it might be a cleaner structure. Just make sure you understand prohibited transaction rules because they're strictly enforced.

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I went down this road and the self-directed IRA route has its own complications though. The UBIT (Unrelated Business Income Tax) can kick in if there's debt-financed income from the properties, which often makes leveraged real estate less attractive inside an IRA. Plus, you lose out on depreciation deductions that would otherwise flow through on your personal return.

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I've been following this discussion closely as I'm considering a similar structure. One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the potential impact of the Corporate Transparency Act (CTA) on ROBS structures. Since your C-corp would likely be considered a "reporting company" under the new beneficial ownership reporting requirements, you'll need to file FinCEN reports disclosing ownership information. This adds another layer of compliance but shouldn't affect the tax treatment of your ROBS. Also, regarding the LLC structure you mentioned - make sure you understand how the K-1 income will be treated at the C-corp level. Since C-corps don't get pass-through treatment, the rental income will be subject to corporate tax rates, and if you later want to access those funds personally, you'll face potential double taxation through dividends. Have you considered whether the rental income strategy makes sense given that corporate tax treatment, or would you be better off with a structure that allows pass-through taxation?

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That's a really important point about the Corporate Transparency Act that I hadn't considered. As someone new to this whole ROBS concept, I'm starting to realize there are layers of compliance I never even knew existed. The double taxation issue you mentioned is particularly concerning. If I'm understanding correctly, the rental income from the LLC would be taxed at the corporate level first, and then again if I try to distribute any of those profits to myself personally later? That seems like it could significantly eat into the benefits of using the ROBS structure in the first place. Would it make more sense to structure the C-corp's business activities in a way that generates income that can be reinvested back into the business rather than distributed? Or are there other strategies to minimize this double taxation problem?

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