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This thread has been incredibly educational! As someone new to handling these complex NOL scenarios, I've been taking notes throughout this entire discussion. The step-by-step approaches, practical tips, and real-world experiences everyone has shared are exactly what I needed to build confidence in tackling these calculations. I'm particularly grateful for the emphasis on proper documentation and systematic approaches. Between @222045d97eb3's 5-step methodology, @b204affbce0a's convergence tolerance tip, and @1d778f2fb311's advice on NOL carryforward tracking schedules, I feel like I have a solid framework to start with. One thing I've learned from reading everyone's experiences is that these calculations require both technical precision and practical judgment. The iterative nature of the Social Security recalculation combined with NOL limitations creates complexity that most standard tax software doesn't handle automatically, which explains why so many practitioners end up developing custom spreadsheet solutions. I'm planning to start with manual calculations on my simpler cases to master the mechanics, then potentially explore the automated tools mentioned here as my caseload grows. The importance of understanding the underlying principles before relying on any automated solutions really resonates with me. Thank you to everyone who contributed to this discussion - it's exactly this kind of collaborative knowledge sharing that makes professional communities so valuable. I'm sure I'll be referencing this thread regularly as I work through my first few NOL cases with Social Security benefits!
@8c6c9fdf3ea5 Welcome to the community! As another newcomer who's been following this discussion closely, I completely agree that this thread has been incredibly valuable. The complexity of NOL calculations with Social Security benefits initially seemed overwhelming, but seeing how experienced practitioners break it down into manageable steps makes it much more approachable. I'm in a similar situation - just starting to encounter these scenarios in my practice and realizing that my initial approach was far too simplistic. The iterative calculation methodology that everyone has outlined here is something I definitely need to implement, especially the convergence tolerance approach that @b204affbce0a mentioned. One thing that really stands out to me from this discussion is how important it is to have systematic documentation processes. The tracking schedules for multiple NOL years and the detailed worksheets showing iteration steps aren't just good practice - they seem essential for managing the complexity and providing audit support. I'm also planning to start with manual calculations to really understand the mechanics before considering automated tools. The collaborative knowledge sharing in this community is exactly what makes these challenging technical areas more manageable. Looking forward to contributing my own experiences as I work through these calculations!
As a newcomer to this community, I'm incredibly grateful for the comprehensive discussion everyone has shared on this complex topic. The iterative calculation approach for NOL limitations with Social Security benefits has been a real challenge in my practice, and seeing the step-by-step methodologies outlined here is exactly what I needed. I've been struggling with a client who has 2021 NOLs, Social Security benefits, and rental income that qualifies for QBI deductions. After reading through this entire thread, I realize I was approaching the calculation completely wrong - I was applying the 80% NOL limitation without considering how it affects the Social Security taxable amount iteratively. The 5-step approach that Omar shared is particularly helpful, and I appreciate Alice's tip about using a convergence tolerance to prevent endless minor adjustments. I hadn't considered that the calculations might oscillate indefinitely over small dollar amounts. One question for the group: For clients with both NOL carryforwards and current year NOLs, do you calculate the limitation separately for each, or apply the 80% limitation to the combined total? I want to make sure I'm handling the sequencing correctly before I build my calculation worksheet. Also, has anyone found any good continuing education resources specifically focused on post-TCJA NOL complications? The interaction between NOLs, Social Security benefits, and QBI deductions seems like it should be covered more thoroughly in professional development courses. Thank you all for sharing such detailed insights - this collaborative knowledge sharing is invaluable for building confidence in handling these intricate tax scenarios!
Has anyone tried using the IRS website calculator? Is it accurate or should I just guesstimate?
The IRS Withholding Estimator is actually pretty good if you have all your info handy. Takes like 15 mins but it's worth it. Much better than guessing and ending up with a surprise tax bill!
I've been in a similar situation and found that the key is being strategic about it rather than just making a blanket change. At your income level ($3900 biweekly), you're definitely having a lot withheld - probably more than you'll actually owe in taxes. Here's what I'd recommend: First, use the IRS Withholding Estimator that others have mentioned - it really is accurate and will give you a much better picture than guessing. Second, consider making a gradual adjustment rather than a big change all at once. When I was overwithholding, I started by reducing my withholding by about half of what the calculator suggested I could safely do. This gave me an extra $75-80 per paycheck without creating a big tax liability. After seeing how it worked out over a few months, I made a small additional adjustment. The peace of mind of knowing you won't owe a huge amount in April is worth taking the conservative approach, especially in your first year of making this change. You can always adjust again next year once you see how it plays out.
This is really solid advice! I like the gradual approach - makes a lot more sense than making a huge change and potentially getting burned. How long did you wait between adjustments? I'm thinking maybe I should start with a small change and see how my next few paychecks look before doing anything more dramatic.
This entire discussion has been incredibly valuable! As someone who works with seniors on tax preparation, I see these Social Security taxation questions constantly, and this thread covers all the major points beautifully. One additional tip I'd like to share that often gets overlooked: if you're helping a parent or relative with their taxes and they receive Social Security, make sure to check if they received Form SSA-1099 showing the total benefits paid. Sometimes people only report the net amount they received (after Medicare premiums were deducted) rather than the gross amount shown on the SSA-1099. The provisional income calculation needs to use the GROSS amount before any deductions. Also, for those dealing with estimated tax payments, remember that if a significant portion of Social Security becomes taxable due to other retirement income, you might need to make quarterly payments to avoid underpayment penalties. The IRS doesn't withhold taxes from Social Security automatically unless you specifically request it using Form W-4V. The timing strategies mentioned throughout this thread are spot-on. I've seen clients save thousands by being strategic about when they take distributions from retirement accounts, especially in the years between retirement and when RMDs kick in at age 73. That's often the sweet spot for tax planning around Social Security benefits. Thanks to everyone who contributed - this is a masterclass in Social Security taxation that I'm definitely bookmarking for future reference!
This is such an important point about the SSA-1099 form! I made exactly this mistake when I first helped my mom with her taxes - I was using the net amount she actually received rather than the gross amount on the form. It threw off the entire provisional income calculation and I couldn't figure out why my numbers didn't match what the tax software was showing. The estimated tax payment reminder is also crucial. My mom got hit with an underpayment penalty last year because we didn't realize how much additional tax would be owed once her Social Security became partially taxable. Now we have her making quarterly payments to stay ahead of it. I really appreciate you mentioning the timing strategies for those years between retirement and RMDs starting at 73. That's exactly the window my parents are in now, and it's been eye-opening to see how much control we actually have over their tax situation during these years. We've been able to keep their provisional income just under the thresholds by being strategic about IRA withdrawals and timing some stock sales. As someone new to helping with senior taxes, this entire thread has been like a crash course in Social Security taxation. Thanks to you and everyone else who shared their expertise - it's made what seemed like an impossible topic actually manageable!
This thread has been absolutely fantastic for understanding Social Security taxation! As someone who's been dreading helping my parents with this exact issue, seeing all these real-world examples and step-by-step breakdowns has been a lifesaver. I wanted to add one more consideration that I learned the hard way - if your loved one has any state tax obligations, make sure to check how your state treats Social Security benefits. Some states don't tax Social Security at all (even if it's federally taxable), while others follow the federal calculation exactly. A few states have their own unique rules. In my parents' case, we moved them from a state that fully taxed their Social Security benefits to one that doesn't tax them at all. Combined with the timing strategies discussed here for federal taxes, it made a huge difference in their overall tax burden. Also, for anyone dealing with this for the first time like I was, don't be afraid to walk through the calculation multiple times with different scenarios. I created a simple spreadsheet based on the formulas shared here and tested various "what if" situations - like what happens if they withdraw $5K more from their IRA, or delay a withdrawal until next year. It really helped me understand how sensitive the calculation is to changes in other income. Thanks to everyone who shared their knowledge and experiences - this is exactly the kind of practical, community-driven help that makes navigating these complex tax rules possible!
This is such a great point about state taxation differences! I had no idea that states treated Social Security benefits so differently. That's definitely something I need to look into for my own situation. Your spreadsheet approach is brilliant - I'm definitely going to create something similar. It sounds like having that "what if" capability really helps with planning rather than just reacting after the fact. One quick question for anyone who might know - when you're doing these projections for timing withdrawals, do you also factor in potential changes to tax brackets? I'm wondering if it's worth taking slightly larger distributions in lower tax years even if it means more Social Security gets taxed, versus spreading everything out more evenly. Thanks for sharing your experience with the state move too - that's the kind of big picture thinking that can really make a difference in retirement planning!
This is a great discussion with lots of helpful insights! I'm relatively new to tax planning but dealing with a similar situation with a family member's rental property that was incorrectly structured as an S-Corp. One thing I'm curious about - several people mentioned the "deemed liquidation" consequences when converting. For someone in Anastasia's client's situation where the S-Corp is only 8 months old, what's typically considered "minimal activity"? My family member's S-Corp has purchased one rental property and collected about 6 months of rent, but the property value has stayed roughly the same since purchase. Would this likely qualify as minimal consequences for the conversion, or should we be prepared for more significant tax implications? Also, has anyone had experience with state-level complications during this process? I'm in California and wondering if there are additional state filings or fees beyond the federal forms that have been discussed.
Great questions, Lucas! For your family member's situation with one rental property and 6 months of rent collection, that would typically be considered "minimal activity" if the property value hasn't changed much. The main concern with deemed liquidation is built-in gains on appreciated assets, so if the property is worth roughly the same as when purchased, you're likely looking at minimal tax consequences. However, you'll want to be careful about any depreciation that's been claimed on the rental property. Even if the market value hasn't changed, the S-Corp may have taken depreciation deductions that could create some recapture issues during conversion. Regarding California - yes, there are definitely additional state-level considerations! California doesn't automatically follow federal entity classification elections, so you'll likely need to file separate paperwork with the California Secretary of State and possibly the Franchise Tax Board. California also has its own S-Corp election rules that don't always align with federal timing. I'd strongly recommend consulting with a California tax professional who can navigate both the federal conversion and the state-specific requirements, as missing a California filing could create ongoing compliance issues.
I'm dealing with a very similar situation right now - client formed an S-Corp for real estate without consulting me first, and now we're trying to clean up the mess. One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is the impact on any existing loans or mortgages on the property. When we convert from S-Corp to LLC status, some lenders consider this a change in ownership that could trigger a "due on sale" clause, even though it's the same beneficial owner. I've had one client where the bank demanded immediate payoff of a commercial mortgage during an entity conversion, which created a huge cash flow problem. Has anyone here dealt with lender issues during S-Corp to LLC conversions? I'm wondering if there's a way to structure the conversion to minimize the risk of triggering these clauses, or if we should get written consent from lenders before proceeding with the entity change. Also, for those who've successfully completed these conversions - did you find it helpful to get a formal legal opinion letter documenting that the conversion was done properly? I'm thinking this might be useful protection if the IRS ever questions the transaction down the road.
You raise an excellent point about lender issues that often gets overlooked! I dealt with this exact situation about two years ago with a client who had a commercial property loan. The key is to be proactive with the lender communication. What worked for us was contacting the lender before starting the conversion process and explaining that this was purely a tax election change with no change in beneficial ownership. We provided documentation showing the same individual owned 100% before and after the conversion. Most commercial lenders understand these entity conversions happen for legitimate tax reasons, but they want to be informed rather than surprised. We also structured it as a simple revocation of S-Corp status rather than any kind of merger or reorganization, which helped frame it as a tax classification change rather than a transfer of ownership. The bank ultimately provided a written confirmation that they wouldn't invoke the due-on-sale clause as long as the beneficial ownership remained unchanged. Regarding the legal opinion letter - I haven't found it necessary for straightforward conversions where you're just revoking S status and electing LLC treatment. However, if you're doing anything more complex like an F reorganization, having that documentation could definitely be worthwhile insurance. The cost is usually modest compared to the potential headaches if something goes wrong. @Ava Harris Have you already reached out to your client s'lenders, or are you still in the planning phase?
Mason Davis
Has anyone mentioned that if the house was the father's primary residence, he might have qualified for the $250,000 capital gains exclusion? Might not need to worry about basis at all.
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Faith Kingston
ā¢The primary residence exclusion ($250,000 for single, $500,000 for married filing jointly) only applies to the person who lived in and owned the home. When children inherit a house, they get a stepped-up basis, but they don't inherit the primary residence exclusion. The exclusion requires the owner to have lived in the home as their primary residence for at least 2 out of the 5 years before selling. Since the children inherited the house and then sold it (presumably without living in it as their primary residence for 2+ years), they can't use this exclusion.
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Mateo Martinez
The property tax assessment approach should work fine for your situation, especially since the difference between your 2021 assessment ($187,500) and 2024 sale price ($195,000) is relatively small. That $7,500 gain over 3 years actually suggests the assessment was pretty close to market value at the time of death. A few practical tips from someone who's been through this: First, make sure you have a copy of the official 2021 property tax assessment document - not just the amount, but the actual assessment notice. Second, consider pulling a few comparable sales from late 2021/early 2022 in your neighborhood as supporting documentation. You can find these on sites like Zillow, Redfin, or your county's property records website. The IRS generally accepts property tax assessments for establishing FMV, especially when they're reasonable compared to eventual sale prices. In your case, the numbers tell a logical story. Just keep good records and you should be fine. The stepped-up basis is one of the few tax breaks that actually works in your favor!
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Sean Doyle
ā¢This is really helpful! I'm dealing with a similar situation with my grandmother's property. Quick question - when you mention pulling comparable sales from late 2021/early 2022, how close in time and location do these need to be to be considered valid supporting documentation? Also, is there a specific way to format or present this information if the IRS asks for it later?
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