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11 I think everyone's missing a key point here - the OP might be able to recharacterize that Roth contribution as a Traditional IRA contribution instead of just withdrawing it. This could potentially be better depending on their situation. When you recharacterize, you basically tell the IRS "oops, I meant to put this in a Traditional IRA instead of a Roth." You'll have to pay tax on any earnings when you eventually withdraw, but you avoid the 6% penalty going forward and don't lose the tax-advantaged space. Of course, this only works if you were eligible to contribute to a Traditional IRA in the year of the original contribution. Talk to your IRA provider about the recharacterization process.
22 Is there a time limit for recharacterization though? I thought you had to do that by the tax filing deadline for the year of the contribution.
11 You're absolutely right about the time limit, and that's an important clarification. Recharacterization generally must be done by the tax filing deadline (including extensions) for the year of the contribution. Since the OP mentioned this was from "several years ago," recharacterization is unfortunately no longer an option. For anyone else reading this who recently made an excess contribution, recharacterization is a great option, but it has to be done quickly. For the OP, removal of the excess contribution (plus earnings) is likely the only remaining option to stop the ongoing 6% penalty.
6 I had the exact same problem last year! My income ended up being higher than expected and I had already maxed out my Roth IRA. What I did was call my brokerage (Fidelity in my case) and specifically ask for a "return of excess contribution." They had me fill out a simple form specifying which contribution was in excess and they calculated the earnings on that contribution. They withdrew both amounts, sent me a 1099-R showing the distribution, and I reported it all on my taxes. The earnings portion was taxable for the year I received the distribution, and I had to pay a 10% early withdrawal penalty on those earnings, but it was WAY better than continuing to pay 6% on the whole contribution amount every year. The hardest part was just making the phone call! After that, the brokerage handled everything. Problem solved.
1 Thanks for sharing your experience! Did you need to provide any specific documentation to your brokerage to prove the contribution was excess? Or did they just take your word for it and process the request?
6 They didn't require any documentation at all. I just had to tell them which contribution I wanted treated as excess (in my case it was the whole annual contribution). They have all the records of your contributions already in their system. They did warn me that the calculation of earnings might result in different numbers than I expected, especially if the market had gone up or down significantly since the contribution. In my case, the earnings portion was actually negative because the market had dropped after my contribution, which was actually better for tax purposes since I didn't have to pay tax on earnings that didn't exist.
Something to keep in mind with crypto capital gains - you need to specify if they're short-term (held less than a year) or long-term (over a year). The tax rates are completely different! Short-term gets taxed at your regular income rate while long-term is typically much lower (0%, 15%, or 20% depending on your income bracket).
Thanks for pointing that out. I held most of these coins for over a year, but some of the DeFi stuff was shorter term. Do I need to separate those out specifically on different forms, or just calculate different rates?
You'll report them separately on your Schedule D and Form 8949. You'll use different sections of Form 8949 - Part I for short-term transactions and Part II for long-term. Each transaction gets reported individually with its purchase date, sale date, proceeds, and cost basis. This is where good record keeping becomes really important, as you need to know the specific purchase and sale dates for each position. If you're using tax software, it will guide you through this process and calculate the appropriate tax for each category.
For anyone dealing with missing cost basis info - I learned from my accountant that if you absolutely cannot determine your original cost, the IRS allows you to use $0 as your basis. Obviously that means paying taxes on the full amount, but it's better than making up numbers you can't support and risking penalties.
Just a heads up to everyone that if you're claiming the American Opportunity Credit for the same student, this changes the calculation quite a bit. We found that filing a return for our student (even though not required) to claim AOTC gave us a $2500 credit, which far outweighed any PTC reduction. The scholarship was still unearned income, but the education credit made filing worthwhile.
So does this mean your student's income DID count toward PTC household income once you filed their return? Or were they still exempt from household income because they were below the filing requirement threshold, even though you voluntarily filed? This distinction seems really important.
Their income remained exempt from the household income calculation for Premium Tax Credit purposes. The key is that they were below the filing requirement thresholds ($12,950 for earned income and $1,250 for unearned income), so even though we voluntarily filed a return, their income didn't have to be included in the PTC household calculation. The IRS looks at whether they were required to file, not whether they actually filed. This is an important distinction that many tax software programs don't explain well. So we got the benefit of claiming the American Opportunity Credit without any negative impact on our Premium Tax Credit.
Wait, has anyone actually double-checked what counts as "earned income" for the Additional Child Tax Credit specifically? I thought that was different from the general definition of earned income. Like, does work-study even count for ACTC purposes? This is getting confusing!!!
Good question! For Additional Child Tax Credit purposes, earned income refers to wages, salaries, tips, self-employment income, and certain disability benefits. Work-study income does count as earned income because it's reported on a W-2 as wages. However, the confusion might be because you're thinking of the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), which has its own specific definition of earned income. For the Additional Child Tax Credit, what matters is having at least $2,500 of earned income to begin qualifying, but the credit amount is based on your overall tax situation, not just earned income.
Thanks for clearing that up! I was totally mixing up ACTC requirements with EITC. That makes much more sense now. So if I understand right, the parent needs earned income to qualify for ACTC, but the scholarship question is more about how it affects household income for Premium Tax Credit, not whether it counts for the ACTC calculation itself?
Just to add some additional info that might help - I work at a bank and we see tax payments process differently depending on how you pay: 1. Direct debit through tax software: This typically takes 1-3 business days to actually hit your account after the scheduled date. 2. Credit card: The charge shows up immediately as pending, but it might not fully post for 1-2 days. 3. IRS Direct Pay (on IRS.gov): These typically process within 1-2 business days of your scheduled date. Just something to consider if you're cutting it close with your bank balance!
Do you know if there's any difference in processing time between major banks and smaller credit unions? Mine sometimes takes longer for ACH transfers.
Yes, there can definitely be differences. Larger banks typically process ACH transfers (which is what IRS payments are) more quickly - usually within 24 hours of receiving them. Smaller credit unions sometimes batch their ACH processing and might only run them once per day, which can add a delay of up to 24 hours. If you're with a smaller credit union, I'd add an extra day to the expected processing time just to be safe. So if the IRS schedules the withdrawal for the 15th, it might not actually hit your account until the 17th or 18th at a smaller institution.
What happens if your payment bounces? My account is pretty low and I'm scared I'll get hit with penalties if there's not enough money when they try to withdraw.
If your payment bounces, the IRS will send you a notice and charge you a penalty - usually about 2% of the payment amount. They'll also charge interest on the unpaid amount until you pay it. Plus your bank will probably charge you an NSF fee too.
Hannah Flores
One thing to remember about First Time Abatement for estimated tax penalties - it truly is a "first time" thing. The IRS typically only grants FTA once every 3-4 years per tax type. If you get it now, don't count on getting it again anytime soon! I'd recommend also setting up proper estimated tax payments going forward. The IRS Direct Pay system lets you schedule quarterly payments in advance, and you can use Form 1040-ES to calculate approximately how much you should pay each quarter based on your expected income.
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Natalie Adams
ā¢Thanks for that tip! Do you know if using the FTA for an estimated tax penalty would prevent me from using it for other types of penalties in the future? Like if I somehow ended up with a late filing penalty next year?
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Hannah Flores
ā¢Good question. The FTA policy is actually applied separately to different types of penalties. So using your FTA for an estimated tax penalty wouldn't prevent you from qualifying for an FTA on a late filing or late payment penalty in the future. The IRS treats each penalty type as its own category for FTA purposes. But you should still aim to avoid penalties altogether since FTAs aren't guaranteed and depend on your compliance history.
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Kayla Jacobson
Has anyone tried just calling the IRS Practitioner Priority Line instead of filing Form 843? I'm a tax preparer and sometimes we can get estimated tax penalties removed over the phone if it's a first-time situation and the amount is under $1,000.
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William Rivera
ā¢Isn't the Practitioner Priority Line only for tax professionals with CAF numbers? I don't think regular taxpayers can use that line - we're stuck with the normal IRS customer service line.
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