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I actually did exactly what you're considering about 3 years ago with our rental business. We switched from taking mostly W2 to a smaller salary with quarterly distributions. BIG MISTAKE. We got audited the following year, and the IRS determined our W2 salaries were unreasonably low compared to our responsibilities and distributions. They reclassified about 70% of our distributions as wages subject to employment taxes, plus penalties and interest. Our tax bill ended up being much higher than if we'd just maintained appropriate W2 compensation in the first place. Don't get greedy trying to avoid FICA taxes - the IRS has seen every trick in the book with rental businesses.
Wow that's scary. What was your W2 to distribution ratio that triggered the audit? Were there any warning signs before they came after you?
We went from 100% W2 to about 25% W2 and 75% distributions, which was way too aggressive. There weren't any specific warning signs before the audit notice arrived. They simply selected our return for examination. During the audit, they looked at our involvement in the business, the services we performed, and comparable salaries in our area for property managers. They determined that our "reasonable" salary should have been around 65-70% of what we were taking out of the business.
Has anyone considered the potential impact on mortgages and loans when switching from W2 to distributions? I made this switch with my property management company and then tried to refinance my primary residence. The bank gave me a MUCH harder time qualifying with distribution income versus W2 income. They wanted 2 years of tax returns showing consistent distributions and still counted it as less reliable than employment income. Just something to consider if you're planning to apply for any financing in the next couple years!
One thing I haven't seen mentioned - make sure you understand the difference between your RSUs vesting and any selling that might have happened automatically. Many companies have a "sell-to-cover" arrangement where they automatically sell a portion of your vested shares to cover tax withholding. Look at your brokerage statements from when the RSUs vested. It might show that, say, 35% of the shares were sold immediately for tax withholding. If that's the case, your employer should have already withheld taxes on the full $300k value, but you'd only have the remaining 65% of shares in your account.
Not sure if this helps but you can actually see if your employer withheld taxes properly by looking at Box 2 of your W2 (Federal income tax withheld). If they included the $300k RSUs in Box 1 (Wages) but didn't withhold enough taxes on them, that's why you're seeing a large tax bill now. Unfortunately, you can't override the W2 income amount in TurboTax because that's what's reported to the IRS. The W2 is correct in including the RSUs as income. Your only options are: 1. Pay the tax you owe on that income now 2. Set up an IRS payment plan if you can't pay it all at once 3. If you believe the W2 is actually incorrect (not just inconvenient), contact your employer for a corrected W2
Has anyone considered restructuring the debt itself rather than just eliminating the interest? Maybe the sons could contribute the note to a family limited partnership and then distribute partnership interests in a way that achieves their objectives? Or possibly convert the debt to preferred equity with specific dividend rights?
I like the partnership idea. We did something similar where we created a family LLC that held various family assets including some promissory notes. By careful allocation of the LLC interests and distribution provisions, we were able to effectively redirect income within the family while maintaining appropriate legal and tax structures.
Just want to point out that whatever route you take, make sure it has legitimate business purpose beyond just tax savings. The IRS can recharacterize transactions that appear to be solely tax-motivated. Document any legitimate non-tax reasons for the restructuring (e.g., improving company cash flow, facilitating business expansion plans, addressing changing family circumstances).
Make sure to send your response via certified mail or some international equivalent that gives you tracking and delivery confirmation! I had a similar situation and the IRS later claimed they never received my response. Without proof of delivery, I had to go through the whole process again.
That's a great tip! Do you know which international shipping methods the IRS accepts as proof of delivery? I'm in Germany so I assume Deutsche Post has some options, but not sure which ones the IRS recognizes.
Any service that provides tracking and delivery confirmation should work. DHL, FedEx, and UPS are all recognized by the IRS. Deutsche Post's registered mail service (Einschreiben) should also work fine. The key is getting a tracking number and delivery confirmation you can save. The IRS doesn't specify which carriers they prefer - they just need verifiable proof you sent it by a certain date and that they received it.
Just want to point out - since you already PAID your taxes, this is mostly a paperwork issue and not something to panic about. The IRS cares most about getting their money, which they already have. I had a similar situation (though domestic) and just sent in the signed form with a brief explanation. Never heard anything else about it. They just needed to check the box that they had my signature.
Natalia Stone
Be VERY careful with ERTC claims right now. My manufacturing business filed legitimately for both 2020 and 2021 last year with solid documentation. We got our 2020 refund after about 6 months, but we just received a compliance check letter requesting additional documentation for our 2021 claim. Our CPA said the IRS is auditing a much higher percentage of these claims than normal due to all the fraud. Having accurate quarterly revenue comparisons properly documented seems to be critical. They specifically requested: - Detailed calculation methodology - Proof of paid qualified wages - Government orders affecting operations - Quarter-by-quarter revenue documentation If you're going to file for 2020, just make sure you have absolutely rock-solid documentation for everything.
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Sydney Torres
β’That's exactly what I'm worried about! Did the IRS give any indication whether they're targeting specific industries or claim amounts? Our documents for 2021 were somewhat rushed (though legitimate), so I'm wondering if filing a more careful 2020 claim might actually trigger them to look at both years.
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Natalia Stone
β’They didn't specify targeting criteria in our letter, but our CPA mentioned manufacturing and construction businesses seem to be getting more scrutiny lately, particularly those claiming over $200K total. From conversations with other business owners, it appears they're flagging claims with large differences between quarters or that used different qualification methods across quarters. Filing a 2020 claim now wouldn't necessarily trigger a review of your 2021 claim, but they might examine both if the 2020 claim raises questions. The key factor seems to be consistency in your qualification narrative and calculations between both years. If the story of how your business was impacted matches across both claims, that's better than contradictory explanations.
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Tasia Synder
I'm dealing with the exact same situation - we claimed 2021 but not 2020, and now I'm terrified we're leaving money on the table. Has anyone actually calculated whether the potential interest and penalties for an incorrect 2021 claim would outweigh the legitimate 2020 claim amount?
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Selena Bautista
β’The standard penalty for an incorrect ERTC claim is 20% of the erroneous amount plus interest (currently around 7%). So if you overclaimed by $50k in 2021 but could legitimately claim $200k for 2020, you'd still come out way ahead even if penalized.
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