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As a small accounting firm owner, I've dealt with these W-2 penalties several times. One thing not mentioned yet - make sure to specify in your request that you want an abatement of both the penalty AND any interest that's accrued on the penalty amount. The IRS sometimes will remove the penalty but forget to remove the interest. Also, if your first request is denied (which happens sometimes automatically), appeal it! The appeals process often gets you in front of someone who has more authority to consider the circumstances. We've had about 70% success rate with penalty abatements when we show a clear timeline and documentation of efforts to comply.
Thanks for mentioning the interest part - I wouldn't have thought of that! Do you typically include bank statements or something to prove when we called the SSA? I'm trying to figure out what kind of documentation would be most convincing.
For documentation, phone records are helpful if you have them, but emails are better since they show the content of the communication. If you have any confirmation emails from when you registered the new employee with the SSA, definitely include those. Screenshots of the registration process showing dates are also useful. The postmarked envelope that contained your PIN is excellent evidence - keep that if you still have it! What really helps is creating a simple timeline document that lines up all your actions chronologically so the IRS can easily see your good faith efforts. The clearer you make it for them, the better your chances.
Just wondering - did anyone try the IRS's Online Payment Agreement system for this? We had a smaller W-2 penalty (about $2800) and couldn't get it abated, but we were able to set up a payment plan over 72 months which made it much more manageable. The interest rate wasn't terrible compared to other options.
I did this for a different tax issue. The online setup was pretty easy but there's a small setup fee. I think it was like $130 for the online application but would have been more if I'd done it by phone or mail. Just be aware that interest continues to accrue on the outstanding balance throughout the payment plan.
Don't forget about self-employed retirement plans! If you had any self-employment income in 2023 (even side gig stuff), you might be eligible for a SEP IRA contribution which could significantly reduce your AGI. You can contribute up to 25% of your net self-employment income, up to a max of $66,000 for 2023. The best part is you can establish and fund a SEP IRA up until your tax filing deadline INCLUDING EXTENSIONS. So if you extend your return to October, you have until then to fund it!
Thanks for mentioning this! I actually did do some freelance work last year that I reported on Schedule C. Would I need to open a specific type of account for this SEP IRA thing? And does the contribution have to be from the freelance income specifically or can it come from my savings?
You'll need to open a specific SEP IRA account at a brokerage like Vanguard, Fidelity, or Schwab. Most have simple online applications and you can designate it as a SEP IRA during the account creation process. The contribution can come from any of your personal funds - it doesn't have to be directly from your freelance earnings. The important thing is that your contribution can't exceed 25% of your net self-employment income (after deducting expenses and the self-employment tax deduction). If you made $10,000 in net profit from freelancing, you could contribute up to about $2,500 to a SEP IRA which would directly reduce your AGI by that amount.
Has anyone tried making qualified charitable distributions from an IRA to reduce AGI? My tax guy mentioned this but I'm not sure if it works or if there's an age requirement.
Qualified Charitable Distributions (QCDs) only work if you're 70.5 years or older, and they're made directly from your IRA to the charity. They don't technically reduce your AGI but they do reduce your taxable income. If you're younger, regular charitable contributions won't reduce AGI either - they're itemized deductions that come after AGI is calculated.
Something nobody's mentioned is that you should make sure you enter the 401k distribution correctly in your tax software. When I did this last year, TurboTax initially calculated that I owed the 10% penalty because I didn't check the right exemption box. Double check that you've properly indicated any applicable exceptions to the penalty. Also, while the 20% withholding will be counted toward your total tax, remember the distribution itself will be added to your income, which could potentially push you into a higher tax bracket or reduce some of your credits. Every situation is different - it might be worth consulting with a tax professional given your specific circumstances.
Thanks for bringing this up. I'm worried about how the 401K distribution might affect our Earned Income Credit. Do you know if retirement distributions count as income for calculating the EIC? We're really counting on that credit this year with our reduced income.
Yes, 401k distributions do count as income for calculating the Earned Income Credit, which is something to be aware of. The distribution could potentially reduce your EIC amount since it increases your AGI. However, it won't completely disqualify you if your overall income still falls within the EIC thresholds. For the Child Tax Credit, the same principle applies - the 401k distribution increases your income, which could affect the amount you receive if you're near a phase-out threshold. In your specific situation though, if you're truly below the poverty line even after counting the distribution, you'll likely still qualify for the full credits, but it's definitely something to watch when you're preparing your return.
Were you able to document the foundation repairs as a qualified hardship? I had to take a 401k withdrawal for medical expenses last year and was able to avoid the 10% penalty entirely by showing that the expenses exceeded 7.5% of my adjusted gross income. The financial institution still withheld the 20% for taxes, but I got that back when I filed because my actual tax rate was lower. Just make sure you keep ALL receipts and documentation from the foundation repair. The IRS can request proof up to 3 years after you file.
One thing nobody's mentioned yet - make sure you understand the timing requirements for S-Corp election. You need to file Form 2553 within 2 months and 15 days of the beginning of the tax year you want the election to take effect. If you miss that window, you're generally stuck waiting until next year (though there are some late election relief options). Also, keep in mind that an S-Corp must have a calendar year end (Dec 31). And once you start having the company pay your LLC, you'll need to keep clean books, potentially open a separate business bank account, and make sure you're segregating business and personal expenses.
That's super helpful info about the timing! So if I want this for 2025 tax year, I'd need to file the S-Corp election by March 15, 2025? What if I form the LLC now in 2024 - does that change anything with the timing?
If you form your LLC now in 2024 but want the S-Corp election to take effect for the 2025 tax year, you would need to file Form 2553 by March 15, 2025. If you plan to operate the LLC for the remainder of 2024 before the S-Corp election kicks in, your LLC would be taxed as either a sole proprietorship (single-member LLC) or partnership (multi-member LLC) by default for 2024, and then as an S-Corp starting January 1, 2025. During that interim period before the S-Corp election takes effect, you'd still be subject to self-employment tax on all profits. Many people form their LLC in Q4 of the year and then immediately file the S-Corp election for the upcoming year to minimize this interim period.
Has anyone considered the other costs involved with S-Corps? I'm looking at this same transition and discovered: 1. State franchise tax in my state (CA) is $800 minimum per year just to have an LLC 2. I need a registered agent ($100-300/yr) 3. Payroll service fees ($40-60/month) 4. Accountant fees for S-Corp tax return (~$1000+) 5. Bookkeeping software ($25+/month) Plus the hassle of running payroll, maintaining corporate minutes, etc. Seems like you need to be making good money for this to be worth it.
I'm in TX and we don't have the state franchise tax, so that saves a lot! My accountant says the breakeven point is around $60-70k in profit - below that and the administrative costs eat up the SE tax savings. Above $100k is where you really start seeing the benefits.
Paolo Esposito
One thing to watch out for with California - they're pretty aggressive about maintaining that you're still a resident even after you've moved. Make sure you have clear documentation that you've actually established domicile in Michigan: - Michigan driver's license - Voter registration in Michigan - Michigan car registration - Closing California bank accounts or changing primary address - Changing your address on all official documents California has been known to audit people who move to lower-tax states, especially if you still have significant connections to California. Good luck!
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StormChaser
ā¢Thanks for mentioning this! I've already gotten my Michigan driver's license, registered to vote, and changed my car registration. I kept my California bank account open though since they have locations in Michigan too. Should I still consider closing it to be safe?
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Paolo Esposito
ā¢You don't necessarily need to close the California bank account, but definitely make sure you've changed the primary address on the account to your Michigan address. Having a CA bank account with a CA address could be one factor they look at. The most important things are already done - driver's license, voter registration, and vehicle registration show your intent to permanently reside in Michigan. Also make sure your employer has your Michigan address for your W-2, and that any investment accounts are updated with your new address.
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Amina Toure
I moved from Oregon to Texas last year and missed a big issue with my bank interest - I didn't realize I needed to prorate it between states on my part-year resident returns! Ended up having to file an amended return. One tip: If you use tax software, make sure it supports multi-state returns properly. Some of the free options don't handle part-year residency well. I ended up using TaxAct which was pretty good for my situation.
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Oliver Weber
ā¢TurboTax Premium worked great for my CA to WA move. It walked me through allocating income between states and explained which income belongs where. It costs more than the basic version but worth it for multi-state situations.
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