


Ask the community...
Having been an international student advisor for years, I can share that you should definitely use your last US address from when you were physically present in 2019. For the substantial presence test exception, you're on the right track with the citations, but make sure you also complete Part II of Form 8843 completely. Since your OPT was pending and then approved (even though you didn't use it), you maintained your F-1 status during that period in 2019, which means you still qualify for the student exemption from the substantial presence test. Keep in mind that the 5-year rule might impact you soon if you return to the US, since you started in 2013. After 5 calendar years of presence as a student, the substantial presence test exemption begins to have limitations.
Thank you for this detailed information. I've been worried about the 5-year rule. Since I started school in Fall 2013 and left in March 2019, have I already exceeded the 5-year limit for the student exemption? Or does it work by calendar years rather than academic years?
The 5-year rule works by calendar years, not academic years. So if you were first present as a student in 2013, then 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017 would be your five exempt years. Starting in 2018, you would need to count days toward the substantial presence test. However, there's an important exception - you can still claim the exemption beyond 5 years if you can establish that you do not intend to reside permanently in the US and you have substantially complied with the requirements of your visa. Since you left the US and canceled your OPT, you have a strong case that you didn't intend to remain permanently, which might allow you to claim the exemption for 2018 and the partial year 2019 as well.
Just a quick tip - make sure you're using the correct version of Form 8843 for the 2019 tax year. The IRS sometimes updates these forms, and using the wrong year's form could delay processing. Has anyone used TurboTax or other software for filing as a former international student? I'm in a similar situation.
I tried using TurboTax for my international student filing and it was a disaster. It's really not designed for nonresident aliens or Form 8843. I ended up having to do it manually. H&R Block has slightly better options for international students but still limited.
One thing to watch out for with California - they're pretty aggressive about maintaining that you're still a resident even after you've moved. Make sure you have clear documentation that you've actually established domicile in Michigan: - Michigan driver's license - Voter registration in Michigan - Michigan car registration - Closing California bank accounts or changing primary address - Changing your address on all official documents California has been known to audit people who move to lower-tax states, especially if you still have significant connections to California. Good luck!
Thanks for mentioning this! I've already gotten my Michigan driver's license, registered to vote, and changed my car registration. I kept my California bank account open though since they have locations in Michigan too. Should I still consider closing it to be safe?
You don't necessarily need to close the California bank account, but definitely make sure you've changed the primary address on the account to your Michigan address. Having a CA bank account with a CA address could be one factor they look at. The most important things are already done - driver's license, voter registration, and vehicle registration show your intent to permanently reside in Michigan. Also make sure your employer has your Michigan address for your W-2, and that any investment accounts are updated with your new address.
I moved from Oregon to Texas last year and missed a big issue with my bank interest - I didn't realize I needed to prorate it between states on my part-year resident returns! Ended up having to file an amended return. One tip: If you use tax software, make sure it supports multi-state returns properly. Some of the free options don't handle part-year residency well. I ended up using TaxAct which was pretty good for my situation.
TurboTax Premium worked great for my CA to WA move. It walked me through allocating income between states and explained which income belongs where. It costs more than the basic version but worth it for multi-state situations.
As a small accounting firm owner, I've dealt with these W-2 penalties several times. One thing not mentioned yet - make sure to specify in your request that you want an abatement of both the penalty AND any interest that's accrued on the penalty amount. The IRS sometimes will remove the penalty but forget to remove the interest. Also, if your first request is denied (which happens sometimes automatically), appeal it! The appeals process often gets you in front of someone who has more authority to consider the circumstances. We've had about 70% success rate with penalty abatements when we show a clear timeline and documentation of efforts to comply.
Thanks for mentioning the interest part - I wouldn't have thought of that! Do you typically include bank statements or something to prove when we called the SSA? I'm trying to figure out what kind of documentation would be most convincing.
For documentation, phone records are helpful if you have them, but emails are better since they show the content of the communication. If you have any confirmation emails from when you registered the new employee with the SSA, definitely include those. Screenshots of the registration process showing dates are also useful. The postmarked envelope that contained your PIN is excellent evidence - keep that if you still have it! What really helps is creating a simple timeline document that lines up all your actions chronologically so the IRS can easily see your good faith efforts. The clearer you make it for them, the better your chances.
Just wondering - did anyone try the IRS's Online Payment Agreement system for this? We had a smaller W-2 penalty (about $2800) and couldn't get it abated, but we were able to set up a payment plan over 72 months which made it much more manageable. The interest rate wasn't terrible compared to other options.
I did this for a different tax issue. The online setup was pretty easy but there's a small setup fee. I think it was like $130 for the online application but would have been more if I'd done it by phone or mail. Just be aware that interest continues to accrue on the outstanding balance throughout the payment plan.
Something nobody's mentioned is that you should make sure you enter the 401k distribution correctly in your tax software. When I did this last year, TurboTax initially calculated that I owed the 10% penalty because I didn't check the right exemption box. Double check that you've properly indicated any applicable exceptions to the penalty. Also, while the 20% withholding will be counted toward your total tax, remember the distribution itself will be added to your income, which could potentially push you into a higher tax bracket or reduce some of your credits. Every situation is different - it might be worth consulting with a tax professional given your specific circumstances.
Thanks for bringing this up. I'm worried about how the 401K distribution might affect our Earned Income Credit. Do you know if retirement distributions count as income for calculating the EIC? We're really counting on that credit this year with our reduced income.
Yes, 401k distributions do count as income for calculating the Earned Income Credit, which is something to be aware of. The distribution could potentially reduce your EIC amount since it increases your AGI. However, it won't completely disqualify you if your overall income still falls within the EIC thresholds. For the Child Tax Credit, the same principle applies - the 401k distribution increases your income, which could affect the amount you receive if you're near a phase-out threshold. In your specific situation though, if you're truly below the poverty line even after counting the distribution, you'll likely still qualify for the full credits, but it's definitely something to watch when you're preparing your return.
Were you able to document the foundation repairs as a qualified hardship? I had to take a 401k withdrawal for medical expenses last year and was able to avoid the 10% penalty entirely by showing that the expenses exceeded 7.5% of my adjusted gross income. The financial institution still withheld the 20% for taxes, but I got that back when I filed because my actual tax rate was lower. Just make sure you keep ALL receipts and documentation from the foundation repair. The IRS can request proof up to 3 years after you file.
Faith Kingston
Have you checked if you're eligible for the Earned Income Tax Credit? If your income is around $38,500 you might qualify depending on your exact situation. That could help offset some of what you owe. Also, make sure you're taking the standard deduction which is $13,850 for single filers this year.
0 coins
AaliyahAli
โขThanks for the suggestion! I don't think I qualify for EITC since I don't have kids and my income is a bit too high for a single person. I am taking the standard deduction though. It sounds like my real issue is the self-employment taxes on that gig income that I didn't plan for. Lesson learned for next year - I'll be setting aside money each month from my gig work.
0 coins
Emma Johnson
Anyone else notice that the tax software companies make it really easy to miss deductions for self-employed people? I swear they hide that stuff on purpose unless you pay for their premium versions. I switched to FreeTaxUSA last year and found so many more deductions than TurboTax showed me.
0 coins
Liam Brown
โขCompletely agree! TurboTax kept trying to upsell me to their $120 version to "maximize self-employment deductions." FreeTaxUSA found all the same stuff for like $15. And their interface actually explains things better too.
0 coins
Emma Johnson
โขThat's good to know! I felt like I was taking crazy pills when I switched and suddenly found all these deductions TurboTax never mentioned. Their basic version is practically useless for anyone with slightly complicated taxes. FreeTaxUSA actually walks you through the self-employment section with helpful explanations instead of dangling premium features in front of you constantly.
0 coins