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This discussion has been incredibly helpful! I'm dealing with a similar situation with my freelance business and wanted to share what I learned from my CPA about this exact issue. The key insight that finally made it click for me is that the IRS views prepayment as immediately creating an asset - the "right" to receive services or use property. This right has value from the moment you pay for it, which is why the benefit period starts then rather than when you actually use the service. I had prepaid some web hosting and business software licenses totaling about $4,500 in November 2023 for services running through various dates in 2024. My CPA confirmed that since all the service periods end within 12 months of payment (and within 2024), I can deduct the full amount in 2023. What really helped me organize this was creating a simple tracking sheet with columns for: Payment Date, Service Period Start, Service Period End, 12-Month Rule Date, and "Following Tax Year" End Date. Then I can easily see which prepaid expenses qualify for immediate deduction versus those that need to be capitalized. For anyone still confused about this rule, I'd recommend talking through a few specific examples with a tax professional. Once you see how it applies to your actual business expenses, the concept becomes much clearer than trying to understand it in the abstract.

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Hugo Kass

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That tracking sheet idea is brilliant! I wish I had thought of that earlier - would have saved me so much confusion when I was trying to figure out which prepaid expenses I could deduct immediately versus spread over time. I'm curious about one aspect though - when you say the IRS views prepayment as creating an "asset" in the form of rights, does that mean there are any specific documentation requirements beyond just keeping the payment receipt and contract? I want to make sure I'm covering all my bases if I ever get audited. Also, did your CPA mention anything about how this applies to partial prepayments? For example, if I pay 6 months upfront on a 12-month contract, versus paying the full year in advance?

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Josef Tearle

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Great question about documentation! My experience has been that you don't need anything beyond the standard business records - payment receipts, contracts/invoices showing the service period, and bank statements. The key is making sure these clearly show the payment date and exactly what period the prepayment covers. For partial prepayments, the same 12-month rule logic applies. If you pay 6 months upfront in November for services running January-June, your benefit period still starts in November (when you secured those 6 months of service rights). Since the service period ends in June, which is within 12 months of your November payment, you can deduct it all when paid. The beauty of partial prepayments is they're actually less risky from a 12-month rule perspective since you're less likely to accidentally exceed the time limits. I've started doing more partial prepayments for this exact reason - gives me the cash flow benefit of advance payment while keeping the tax treatment simple. One thing I learned the hard way: always get written confirmation of the exact service dates covered by your prepayment. Some vendors are sloppy about this and it can create confusion later about whether you're within the 12-month window.

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Dylan Cooper

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This entire discussion has been incredibly valuable! As someone who's been struggling with prepaid expense timing for my small business, I finally feel like I understand the 12-month rule properly. The key breakthrough for me was realizing that the "benefit" isn't the actual use of the service, but rather securing the RIGHT to that service at the agreed terms. It's like the difference between having a reservation at a restaurant versus actually eating the meal - the value of the reservation exists from the moment you make it. I've been overly conservative with my prepaid expenses, spreading them across multiple years when I could have been deducting them immediately under the 12-month rule. This could have saved me significant cash flow issues during my startup phase. One practical tip I'd add: I now negotiate payment terms with vendors to maximize the 12-month rule benefits. For example, instead of paying in January for services starting immediately, I sometimes pay in December for the same January start date. This lets me deduct in the earlier tax year while still getting the same services. The tracking spreadsheet idea mentioned earlier is something I'm definitely implementing. Having a clear visual of payment dates, benefit periods, and the 12-month windows will make tax prep so much smoother and help ensure I'm taking advantage of this rule properly going forward. Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences and explanations - this community really helps demystify these complex tax concepts!

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This is such a game-changing perspective! I've been making the exact same mistake - being overly conservative and missing out on legitimate deductions that could have helped my cash flow significantly during those tough early business months. Your restaurant reservation analogy is perfect and really drives home the concept. I'm definitely going to start thinking more strategically about payment timing like you mentioned. That December vs January payment strategy is brilliant - same services, but you get the tax benefit a year earlier. I'm curious though - when you negotiate these payment terms with vendors, do you encounter any pushback? Some of my service providers seem pretty rigid about their billing cycles. Have you found certain types of vendors more willing to work with you on payment timing than others? Also, I'm wondering if there are any industries or types of expenses where the 12-month rule commonly gets misapplied. It seems like there's a lot of confusion out there about when the benefit period actually starts, and I want to make sure I'm not missing any other opportunities to optimize my business deductions.

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TechNinja

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One additional resource that might be helpful is IRS Revenue Ruling 87-9, which specifically addresses the treatment of suspended passive losses when a rental property is sold. This ruling clarifies that the suspended losses become fully deductible against all income (not just passive income) in the year you dispose of your entire interest. Also, don't overlook the potential impact of the Net Investment Income Tax (NIIT) if your modified adjusted gross income exceeds certain thresholds ($200K single, $250K married filing jointly). The 3.8% NIIT could apply to your net gain after the passive losses are applied, so factor that into your tax planning. Make sure you keep detailed records of the calculation for your files. The IRS likes to see clear documentation of how suspended passive losses were computed and applied, especially on larger transactions like yours. Consider creating a simple spreadsheet showing the year-by-year accumulation of your $130K in suspended losses - it'll be invaluable if you ever get audited.

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Great point about Revenue Ruling 87-9 and the NIIT! I hadn't considered the Net Investment Income Tax aspect. Quick question - when calculating whether I hit those MAGI thresholds for NIIT, do I use my income BEFORE applying the suspended passive losses, or AFTER? In other words, if my regular income is $180K and I have a $15K net gain after applying passive losses, am I at $195K for NIIT purposes, or would it be higher before the passive loss offset is applied? This could make a big difference in whether I'm subject to that 3.8% tax.

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QuantumQuasar

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For NIIT purposes, you use your MAGI AFTER applying the suspended passive losses. The passive losses reduce your overall income first, then you determine if you're above the NIIT thresholds. So in your example with $180K regular income + $15K net gain after passive losses = $195K MAGI, you'd be below the $200K single threshold and wouldn't owe NIIT. However, be careful about other components of MAGI that might push you over - things like investment income, capital gains from other sources, etc. The passive loss offset applies to reduce the gain from the rental property sale, but your total MAGI includes all income sources. Also worth noting that if you're married filing jointly, you have more room with the $250K threshold. The key is that suspended passive losses are a "below the line" adjustment that reduces your AGI, which then flows through to your MAGI calculation for NIIT purposes.

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Joy Olmedo

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Drew, you're absolutely correct in your calculation. The $130K in suspended passive losses will indeed offset the $145K depreciation recapture, leaving you with about $15K in taxable gain. This is a straightforward application of IRC Section 469(g)(1). For the official IRS documentation you're seeking, here are the key resources: 1. **IRC Section 469(g)(1)(A)** - This is the primary code section governing disposition of passive activities 2. **IRS Publication 925** - "Passive Activity and At-Risk Rules" (pages 18-20 specifically cover disposition rules) 3. **IRS Publication 527** - "Residential Rental Property" 4. **Revenue Ruling 87-9** - Addresses suspended passive losses upon property sale The process works exactly as you described: when you dispose of your entire interest in the rental property, all suspended passive losses become fully deductible against any income in that tax year, including depreciation recapture income. You'll need to file Form 4797 (Sale of Business Property), Form 8582 (to release the suspended losses), and possibly Schedule D. The $15K remaining gain will likely be subject to the 25% depreciation recapture rate. One important note: verify that your $130K figure matches the suspended losses shown on line 16 of your most recent Form 8582. This ensures everything aligns properly when you file.

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Diez Ellis

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This is incredibly helpful! Thank you for providing all the specific citations - especially Revenue Ruling 87-9, which I hadn't come across in my research. Quick question about the Form 8582 filing: when I complete it for the year of sale, do I need to show the full $130K of suspended losses being released on one line, or does it get broken down by activity/property? I only have the one rental property, but I want to make sure I'm filling out the form correctly to avoid any red flags with the IRS.

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StarSurfer

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Since you only have one rental property, you'll report the suspended loss release on a single line in Part II of Form 8582. You'll list your rental property as one passive activity, and when you dispose of your entire interest, all the accumulated suspended losses from that activity ($130K in your case) get released together. In Part II, you'll enter the name/description of your rental activity, check the box indicating "Disposition of entire interest," and enter the $130K in the appropriate column. The form will then calculate how much of those losses can be used to offset your current year income (which would be all of it since you're disposing of the entire interest). The key is making sure the $130K figure you enter matches what was carried forward from your previous year's Form 8582 line 16. If there's any discrepancy, you might want to prepare a reconciliation statement to include with your return showing how you arrived at that number.

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Can an LLC Member legally be classified as an employee? Tax implications explained

I'm in a frustrating situation with my new job and could use some tax advice. I started with a small business back in October 2023 and signed what was clearly labeled as an "EMPLOYMENT CONTRACT" - the signature line even said "EMPLOYEE SIGNATURE." Before signing, I specifically asked about my employment status to confirm I'd be a regular employee, and they verbally assured me I was. The contract included some performance-based compensation in the form of "profit units" that would vest after my first 6 months. But here's where things get weird - they haven't withheld ANY taxes from my paychecks, which seems wrong for an employee. When I brought this up, they suddenly started saying I'm actually an "LLC member" not an employee, and that I'm responsible for self-employment taxes. What's even fishier is that my paychecks are coming from a completely different entity than the one I actually do work for. Plus, I recently discovered they're claiming COVID relief funds by listing me (and others in my position) as employees - the same status they're now denying for tax purposes! I'm totally confused about my actual employment status. Are they breaking tax laws? Can someone actually be both an LLC member AND an employee of the same company? Where can I find reliable info about LLC member tax status and requirements under both state and federal regulations? This whole situation feels shady and I don't want to get caught in their tax mess.

Owen Jenkins

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Lot of good advice here but nobody has mentioned the importance of the LLC Operating Agreement! That document should specify your actual status in the company and might clarify if you're supposed to be treated as a member, manager, employee or some combination. Request a copy ASAP if you don't already have one. Also, if they're paying you from a different entity than the one you work for, that could indicate they're using a Professional Employer Organization (PEO) or some kind of employee leasing arrangement, which is actually pretty common and not necessarily shady. But if that's the case, they DEFINITELY should be withholding taxes!

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Lilah Brooks

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This is good advice. I'd also recommend checking if the LLC is treated as a "disregarded entity" for tax purposes, which is common for single-member LLCs. The tax treatment would flow through to the owner in that case, which complicates things further.

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Owen Jenkins

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Excellent point about disregarded entities. If it's a single-member LLC being treated as a disregarded entity, then the tax situation gets even more complex. In that case, the company would be taxed as a sole proprietorship, and the owner would generally be unable to be classified as an employee of their own company for tax purposes. But given that the OP mentioned "profit units" that vest, it sounds more like a multi-member LLC with some kind of equity compensation structure. In that case, the LLC operating agreement would be absolutely crucial to understand exactly what those "profit units" represent in terms of actual ownership.

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This situation has several red flags that suggest potential tax fraud or worker misclassification. The fact that they're claiming you as an employee for COVID relief purposes while simultaneously refusing to withhold taxes is particularly concerning - that's essentially having it both ways for their financial benefit. Here's what I'd recommend doing immediately: 1. **Document everything** - Save all contracts, pay stubs, emails about your status, and any communications regarding the COVID relief claims. Screenshot or print anything that might disappear. 2. **Request your LLC documentation** - Get copies of the Operating Agreement, any amendments, and confirmation of the LLC's tax election (partnership vs. corporation). You have a right to this information as a purported member. 3. **Calculate your potential tax liability** - Since no taxes have been withheld, you're likely on the hook for both income taxes AND self-employment taxes (15.3%) if you're truly classified as a self-employed LLC member. This could be a substantial amount. 4. **Consider professional help** - This situation is complex enough that you might want to consult with both a tax professional and an employment attorney. Many offer free consultations and can help you understand your rights and obligations. The discrepancy between your "employment contract" language and their current claims about your status, combined with the different payment entity and COVID relief issues, suggests this company may not be handling worker classification properly across the board.

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Yara Nassar

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This is really comprehensive advice, thank you! I'm especially concerned about point #3 regarding the tax liability. If I've been getting paid since October 2023 without any tax withholding, am I looking at penalties for not making quarterly estimated payments? I had no idea I might be responsible for self-employment taxes on top of regular income tax - that 15.3% rate is scary when applied to months of back pay. Should I be setting aside money now for what I might owe, or is there a chance this gets resolved in my favor if it turns out I should have been classified as an employee all along?

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Has anyone actually had their return examined by the IRS after claiming rehab expenses? I'm worried about triggering an audit. My daughter needed treatment and it cost us over $35,000 last year.

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Mia Alvarez

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I claimed about $42k in various medical expenses including rehab for my son 2 years ago. No audit. Just make sure you have documentation for everything. The treatment center gave us an itemized statement that clearly showed which services were for medical treatment vs. any non-medical amenities (like fancy meals or recreation that weren't part of the therapy).

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I went through this exact situation with my son last year. The rehab costs absolutely qualify as medical expenses under IRS Publication 502, but there are a few important things to keep in mind beyond what others have mentioned. First, make sure the facility provides a detailed breakdown of costs. Some rehab centers include non-medical services like premium room upgrades or recreational activities that aren't deductible. You want documentation showing the medical treatment portion specifically. Second, if your brother is receiving any grants, scholarships, or other financial assistance from the rehab center or outside organizations, those amounts need to be subtracted from what he can claim as a deduction. You can only deduct what you actually pay out of pocket after insurance and any other assistance. Also, timing matters - he can only deduct expenses in the year they're actually paid, not when the services were received. So if he pays in December 2024 but treatment continues into January 2025, only the December payment would be deductible on his 2024 return. The documentation is crucial if the IRS ever questions it. Keep receipts, insurance statements showing what they covered, and especially any letter from a doctor stating the treatment was medically necessary. Most reputable treatment centers are familiar with these requirements and can provide the right paperwork.

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Caleb Bell

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This is really helpful information, especially about the timing and documentation requirements. I'm new to dealing with medical deductions and wasn't aware that grants or scholarships would need to be subtracted from the deductible amount. One question - if the treatment center offers a payment plan where you pay over several months, do you deduct the full amount in the year treatment starts, or only deduct each payment in the year it's actually made? My family might be facing a similar situation soon and want to plan accordingly for tax purposes. Also, do you know if there are any differences in how outpatient vs inpatient treatment costs are handled for tax deduction purposes?

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NeonNova

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Something else to consider: if your state offers income tax benefits for 529 contributions, make sure you understand how those work! My wife and I messed this up last year. We live in New York which gives a state tax deduction for up to $5,000 per year ($10,000 for married couples) for contributions to NY's 529 plan. We had my in-laws contribute directly to our son's 529, but then found out WE couldn't claim the state tax deduction because we weren't the ones who made the contribution! Would have been smarter to have them give us the money and then WE contribute it to get the tax benefit.

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This is a great point! Different states have wildly different tax benefits for 529 contributions. Some states (like Indiana) offer tax credits instead of deductions, which are usually more valuable. Some states allow deductions for contributions to ANY state's 529 plan, while others only give tax benefits for contributing to their own state's plan.

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Congratulations on becoming a dad! The 529 planning can definitely feel overwhelming at first, but you're smart to start early. One thing that might help simplify the decision-making process is to think about it in stages rather than trying to figure everything out at once. For the immediate term, you and your wife can each contribute up to $18,000 annually without any paperwork hassles. That's $36,000 per year just from you two. Then each set of grandparents can also contribute their own amounts using the same limits. If someone wants to contribute more than $18,000 in a single year, that's when the 5-year election comes into play, but honestly, unless your family is planning to contribute huge amounts right away, you might not even need to worry about that complexity initially. My suggestion would be to start with a basic contribution plan that stays within the annual limits, get the account set up and running, and then tackle the more complex gifting strategies later as your daughter gets older and your family's financial situation evolves. The most important thing is getting started - you can always adjust the strategy as you learn more!

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This is really solid advice! As someone who's also navigating this as a new parent, I appreciate the staged approach suggestion. It's easy to get paralyzed by all the complex scenarios when really the most important step is just getting started with regular contributions. One follow-up question though - when you mention that each set of grandparents can contribute their own amounts using the same limits, does that mean if both my parents AND my in-laws each want to contribute $18,000, that's totally fine from a gift tax perspective? So theoretically we could have $18,000 from me, $18,000 from my wife, $18,000 from my mom, $18,000 from my dad, $18,000 from mother-in-law, and $18,000 from father-in-law all going into the same 529 account without any gift tax complications? That would be amazing if true - it's way more than I thought we could contribute without hitting tax issues!

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