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Just to add some clarity about Form 8840 specifically - it's ONLY needed if: 1) You meet the substantial presence test (which you don't with only 138 days) 2) You want to claim you have a closer connection to another country Since you don't meet the substantial presence test, you're already considered a nonresident alien for tax purposes. The green card lottery application doesn't change that status - it's just expressing interest, not actually changing your current status. File your 1040NR and don't worry about Form 8840. You do, however, need to file Form 8843 if you're on a J visa - that's different from 8840 and is required for all J visa holders regardless of day count.
Wait what's the difference between 8840 and 8843? I've been filing wrong for years maybe??
Form 8843 is for J visa holders, students, and certain other nonimmigrant statuses to explain your presence in the US. It's required for everyone on those visas regardless of how many days you were in the US. Form 8840 is only for people who would otherwise meet the substantial presence test (183+ days using the formula) but want to claim they have a closer connection to a foreign country and should still be treated as nonresidents. They're often confused because of the similar numbers, but they serve different purposes. If you're on a J visa, you definitely need to file 8843, but you only need 8840 if you meet that substantial presence test and want to claim the closer connection exception.
I went through exactly this last year - J1 visa, applied for green card lottery, and OLT confused me with that same question! Pro tip: OLT isn't great for nonresident returns. Their system kept trying to make me file resident forms. I ended up using Sprintax which is specifically designed for nonresident aliens. A bit more expensive but way less confusing and they file state returns too.
Thanks for sharing your experience! Did Sprintax handle direct deposit of refunds well? That's important to me since I'll be leaving the US soon and want to make sure I get my refund.
Another option that nobody's mentioned yet: You can request a tax transcript from the IRS website for free. Go to IRS.gov and search for "Get Transcript Online" - if you can verify your identity, you can immediately download your tax transcripts which will show your AGI. If you can't verify online, you can request it by mail but that takes 5-10 business days. The transcript is an official record and has all the info you need! That's how I found mine.
Thanks for this suggestion! I tried the online transcript option but couldn't get through the identity verification (apparently my phone isn't registered in my name for some reason). I'll try requesting by mail, but I'm in a bit of a time crunch - do you know if there's any way to expedite that?
Unfortunately there's no way to expedite the mail transcript that I know of. The 5-10 business days is the standard timeframe. If you're in a time crunch, you might want to try one of the other suggestions like the Claimyr service to speak with an IRS agent directly, or see if you can find a copy of last year's return somewhere in your records or email. If you used tax software last year, definitely try logging into that account first - most services keep your returns available for several years. Even if you don't remember which service you used, try the major ones (TurboTax, H&R Block, TaxAct, etc.) with your email to see if you have an account.
I actually just went thru this last week! If u used turbo tax or hr block or any of those last year, just log in to ur account, they save all ur old returns. My AGI was on line 11 of the 1040 form. Super easy to find once i logged in!
Something similar happened to me in 2022. In my case, the IRS was counting EVERY transaction in my payment processor as income - including refunds I issued, transfers between accounts, and even money I was holding for my business partner. Call the Taxpayer Advocate Service at 877-777-4778. They're an independent organization within the IRS that can help with these kinds of issues. They assigned me a case advocate who sorted everything out within a month.
Thank you for this suggestion! I didn't even know the Taxpayer Advocate Service existed. Did you need to provide special documentation to them, or just explain your situation?
I had to provide pretty much everything - bank statements, my complete Venmo transaction history, my tax return, and the deficiency notice. The more documentation you have ready, the faster they can help. Make sure to explain that this is causing you significant financial hardship (which I'm guessing it is, given the amount). That helps them prioritize your case. They're understaffed but they really do try to help if they can see clear evidence that the IRS made a mistake.
Update us on what happens! I've been dealing with a similar issue for 8 months now and still haven't gotten it fully resolved. Make sure to keep detailed notes on every conversation, including the ID number of every IRS employee you talk to.
Former restaurant manager here. You're 100% correct. If tips became tax-free, owners would absolutely use it as an excuse to keep hourly wages at absolute minimum. Why? Because they could argue "hey, you're making all this tax-free money now!" The other thing nobody's talking about: tip-sharing and pooling would become a nightmare. Right now, those systems work because everything is reported. Take away the reporting requirement and suddenly there's no accountability for how much is actually being collected and distributed. I've seen how restaurant owners operate, and I guarantee many would find ways to manipulate a tax-free system to their advantage, not the employees'.
Do you think this would affect different types of restaurants differently? Like would high-end places where servers make $300+ per night handle it differently than diners where tips might be way smaller?
Absolutely. High-end establishments would likely see even more dramatic effects. In fine dining where servers can make $70,000-$100,000 annually primarily through tips, the impact on lending, retirement, and benefits would be catastrophic. Their reported income would suddenly appear to be just $15,000-$20,000 on paper. Smaller diners and casual places would still see negative effects, but the dollar amount difference wouldn't be as extreme. However, servers at these establishments often rely more heavily on programs like EITC and healthcare subsidies, which are all income-based. So while the absolute numbers might be smaller, the relative impact on their financial lives could actually be worse.
Has anyone done the actual math on this? I'm curious how much tax you actually pay on tips vs how much you'd lose in benefits.
I did the calculations for my situation. Last year I made about $42k total, with $35k from tips. I paid roughly $4,800 in federal taxes on that income. But I received $2,300 in EITC and child tax credits. I also qualified for a $1,200/month apartment based on that income and got approved for a car loan at 5.9% interest. If only my hourly wage counted ($7k), I'd save $4,800 in taxes but lose $2,300 in credits. Plus my apartment application would be rejected (they require income 3x rent) and my car loan interest would jump to 18.5% as a "high-risk" borrower. Not worth it at all.
Charity Cohan
For a more formal education, check out the NAEA (National Association of Enrolled Agents) courses. I took their Tax Business 101 and S Corporation Taxation modules when I started my consulting business, and they were incredibly comprehensive. If you're looking for free options, the IRS also has a Small Business Tax Workshop that covers a lot of basics. It's not S Corp specific but covers a lot of general business tax concepts that apply.
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Josef Tearle
ā¢How difficult was the NAEA content? I don't have any formal accounting background - just basic bookkeeping for my business. Would I be in over my head?
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Charity Cohan
ā¢You wouldn't be in over your head with NAEA courses. They're designed to be accessible to people without accounting backgrounds, starting with fundamental concepts and building from there. Each module typically begins with basics and progressively gets more detailed. The S Corporation course specifically explains concepts like reasonable compensation and pass-through taxation in plain language before diving into the more technical aspects. They also provide plenty of real-world examples that make it easier to understand how the concepts apply to actual businesses. Most of my fellow students were business owners like yourself rather than accounting professionals.
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Shelby Bauman
Has anyone tried the Pronto Tax School? I heard they offer certifications that are less intensive than becoming an EA but still pretty comprehensive for business owners.
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Quinn Herbert
ā¢I did their S Corporation specialist course last year. It's good info but very focused on California tax issues, so if you're in another state, just be aware of that limitation. Their materials are easy to understand though, and they explain things much better than the dry IRS publications.
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