


Ask the community...
One thing nobody has mentioned is that you need to recalculate this each year. The safe harbor of 110% of previous year's liability changes annually. So if you're planning for 2025, you'd need to withhold at least 110% of your 2024 tax liability. Based on your numbers, your 2024 tax is $43.4k, so your 2025 safe harbor amount would be $47.74k. If your expected 2025 tax is higher than that, you should use the higher number. Also, don't forget about estimated tax payments as another tool. You could set your withholding a bit lower than needed and then make a strategic Q4 estimated payment to hit your target amount.
Thanks for bringing up the safe harbor rule - that's really helpful! If my 2024 tax is $43.4k, and I need to meet 110% of that ($47.74k), but I want to owe $8k on a projected $48k tax liability, does that mean I should have approximately $40k withheld throughout the year? Or am I missing something in the calculation?
Your calculation is correct. If your expected 2025 tax liability is $48k and you want to owe $8k at filing time, you'd aim for $40k in withholding throughout the year. The safe harbor rule is just to avoid penalties. Since $40k is less than the safe harbor amount of $47.74k (110% of your 2024 liability), you need to make sure you hit at least $47.74k through a combination of withholding and estimated payments to avoid penalties. So you could do $40k in withholding and then make an estimated payment of $7.74k in Q4 to satisfy the safe harbor while still owing about $8k when you file.
Am I the only one amazed that the OP is deliberately trying to owe money? I've always thought the goal was to get a refund or break even. Wouldn't owing $8k mean you also owe interest and penalties? Or is there some loophole I'm missing?
It's actually a valid strategy for credit card churning. If you put an $8k tax payment on a new credit card, you can often meet the spending requirement for a big sign-up bonus. Some cards offer $750-1000 in bonuses for spending $5-8k in the first few months. Plus you get the regular points. As long as you meet the safe harbor rules (withhold 110% of previous year's tax if your income is over $150k), you won't owe penalties. And there's no interest if you pay by the filing deadline. It's totally legal - just a way to get value from money you'd have to pay anyway.
One thing nobody mentioned yet - you should also check if any of these artists are in countries with tax treaties with the US. Some countries have specific rules about how commissions are handled. For example, I work with artists in Canada and there's different documentation requirements than for artists in, say, Brazil.
That's a good point! Do you know if there's a resource where I can look up which countries have tax treaties with the US? Most of my artists are from Japan, South Korea, and a few from the UK.
The IRS has a complete list of tax treaties on their website. Japan, South Korea, and the UK all have tax treaties with the US, which is good news for you! For these countries, you still need the W-8BEN, but the artists might qualify for reduced withholding rates or exemptions depending on the specific treaty. This is another reason to make sure you get those forms completed properly - they allow the artists to claim treaty benefits if applicable.
I messed up this exact situation last year and got hit with a CP2000 notice. Make SURE you keep proof of payments and all communications with these artists. The IRS flagged my contractor payments because I couldn't prove some were to foreign individuals. Even if you can't get W-8BENs from everyone, save emails, payment receipts, anything showing they're international.
What happened with the CP2000? Did you have to pay penalties or just provide the documentation after the fact?
Something important to consider that nobody has mentioned yet: make sure that loan was actually made with the expectation of repayment. The IRS looks at whether you had a reasonable expectation of being paid back when you made the loan. If they determine you never really expected to get paid back (like if your friend had terrible credit or no income), they might classify it as a gift rather than a loan that went bad. Also, keep in mind that nonbusiness bad debts are treated as short-term capital losses even if the loan was for more than a year. This means you're limited to offsetting capital gains plus up to $3,000 of ordinary income per year. If your loss is bigger than that, you'll carry the remainder forward to future tax years.
Does having a written loan contract automatically prove it wasn't a gift? Or does the IRS look for other evidence too? Like what if the friend never made any payments at all?
A written loan contract is definitely helpful but doesn't automatically prove it wasn't a gift. The IRS looks at the entire situation. They consider factors like: Was there a reasonable expectation of repayment? Did you charge interest? Were there regular payment schedules? Did you make efforts to collect when payments weren't made? If your friend never made any payments at all, that might raise more red flags with the IRS. However, if you can show you took reasonable steps to collect (demand letters, texts/emails requesting payment, etc.), that helps demonstrate you genuinely intended it as a loan. Documentation is key - the more evidence you have showing you treated this as a serious financial transaction, the stronger your case.
I went through almost the identical situation last year with a cousin. Loaned $6,500, got back $2,000, and then nothing despite dozens of texts and calls. I claimed the bad debt deduction and it did work, but here's a tip: document EVERYTHING. I made a simple timeline of all attempts to collect (with screenshots of texts and emails). Also, I did send a certified demand letter as a final step which helped prove I made reasonable collection efforts. The tax software I was using (TurboTax) actually had a specific section for bad debts under capital losses. My refund went through without any issues, but I've heard these deductions can sometimes trigger additional review, so having good documentation ready is important.
Did you have to provide all that documentation when you filed or just keep it in case of an audit? My tax software doesn't seem to have any place to upload proof.
If you have a Traditional or Roth IRA, you can sometimes make tax payments through the same investment firm for free. I use Fidelity and they let me make federal and state estimated tax payments with no fees.
Wait seriously??? I have Fidelity and had no idea they offered this. How do you access this feature?
Don't forget to account for the safe harbor rules when making estimated tax payments! As long as you pay either 100% of last year's tax liability (110% if your AGI was over $150,000) or 90% of your current year's liability, you won't face underpayment penalties even if you end up owing more. This was a lifesaver for me because my income fluctuates a lot month to month as a contractor, so calculating exact quarterly estimates was driving me crazy.
That's really helpful! So if I made $80k last year and paid $12k in taxes, as long as I pay $3k per quarter this year ($12k/4), I won't get hit with penalties even if I end up making more? That makes planning so much easier.
Exactly right! For your situation with $80k income and $12k tax last year, paying $3k per quarter will definitely keep you safe from underpayment penalties, even if your income jumps to $100k or more this year. It's one of the few tax rules that actually makes life easier for freelancers and contractors. Just remember if your income does increase dramatically, you'll still owe the additional tax when you file your return - you just won't have the extra penalty on top of it.
Lucas Turner
Another thing to consider with your side mirror - if you have rideshare insurance, some policies might cover cosmetic damages with a lower deductible than regular repairs. Worth checking with your insurance before paying out of pocket for things like this. I learned this the hard way after paying for similar repairs myself!
0 coins
Benjamin Johnson
ā¢Thank you for that suggestion! I honestly didn't even think about checking with my insurance. Do you know if making a claim would affect my rates for rideshare insurance differently than regular insurance?
0 coins
Lucas Turner
ā¢It depends on your specific policy, but many rideshare insurance providers understand that minor cosmetic damages are more common in this line of work. I've filed two small claims in the past year and my rates only went up slightly - much less than the cost of paying for the repairs out of pocket. Make sure to ask specifically about their policy for minor cosmetic repairs for rideshare vehicles. Some have special provisions that won't count these types of claims against you as heavily as accident claims.
0 coins
Kai Rivera
For what it's worth, I switched from standard mileage to actual expenses last year for my rideshare taxes. It's definitely more work tracking everything, but I ended up with a MUCH bigger deduction. If your car is newer or you have lots of repairs/high costs, actual expenses method might be worth considering.
0 coins
Anna Stewart
ā¢How much more in deductions did you get with actual expenses vs standard mileage? I drive about 30k miles a year for rideshare in a 2020 Toyota Camry and I'm wondering if I should switch.
0 coins