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Just to add some clarity about Form 8840 specifically - it's ONLY needed if: 1) You meet the substantial presence test (which you don't with only 138 days) 2) You want to claim you have a closer connection to another country Since you don't meet the substantial presence test, you're already considered a nonresident alien for tax purposes. The green card lottery application doesn't change that status - it's just expressing interest, not actually changing your current status. File your 1040NR and don't worry about Form 8840. You do, however, need to file Form 8843 if you're on a J visa - that's different from 8840 and is required for all J visa holders regardless of day count.
Wait what's the difference between 8840 and 8843? I've been filing wrong for years maybe??
Form 8843 is for J visa holders, students, and certain other nonimmigrant statuses to explain your presence in the US. It's required for everyone on those visas regardless of how many days you were in the US. Form 8840 is only for people who would otherwise meet the substantial presence test (183+ days using the formula) but want to claim they have a closer connection to a foreign country and should still be treated as nonresidents. They're often confused because of the similar numbers, but they serve different purposes. If you're on a J visa, you definitely need to file 8843, but you only need 8840 if you meet that substantial presence test and want to claim the closer connection exception.
I went through exactly this last year - J1 visa, applied for green card lottery, and OLT confused me with that same question! Pro tip: OLT isn't great for nonresident returns. Their system kept trying to make me file resident forms. I ended up using Sprintax which is specifically designed for nonresident aliens. A bit more expensive but way less confusing and they file state returns too.
Thanks for sharing your experience! Did Sprintax handle direct deposit of refunds well? That's important to me since I'll be leaving the US soon and want to make sure I get my refund.
For a more formal education, check out the NAEA (National Association of Enrolled Agents) courses. I took their Tax Business 101 and S Corporation Taxation modules when I started my consulting business, and they were incredibly comprehensive. If you're looking for free options, the IRS also has a Small Business Tax Workshop that covers a lot of basics. It's not S Corp specific but covers a lot of general business tax concepts that apply.
How difficult was the NAEA content? I don't have any formal accounting background - just basic bookkeeping for my business. Would I be in over my head?
You wouldn't be in over your head with NAEA courses. They're designed to be accessible to people without accounting backgrounds, starting with fundamental concepts and building from there. Each module typically begins with basics and progressively gets more detailed. The S Corporation course specifically explains concepts like reasonable compensation and pass-through taxation in plain language before diving into the more technical aspects. They also provide plenty of real-world examples that make it easier to understand how the concepts apply to actual businesses. Most of my fellow students were business owners like yourself rather than accounting professionals.
Has anyone tried the Pronto Tax School? I heard they offer certifications that are less intensive than becoming an EA but still pretty comprehensive for business owners.
Something similar happened to me in 2022. In my case, the IRS was counting EVERY transaction in my payment processor as income - including refunds I issued, transfers between accounts, and even money I was holding for my business partner. Call the Taxpayer Advocate Service at 877-777-4778. They're an independent organization within the IRS that can help with these kinds of issues. They assigned me a case advocate who sorted everything out within a month.
Thank you for this suggestion! I didn't even know the Taxpayer Advocate Service existed. Did you need to provide special documentation to them, or just explain your situation?
I had to provide pretty much everything - bank statements, my complete Venmo transaction history, my tax return, and the deficiency notice. The more documentation you have ready, the faster they can help. Make sure to explain that this is causing you significant financial hardship (which I'm guessing it is, given the amount). That helps them prioritize your case. They're understaffed but they really do try to help if they can see clear evidence that the IRS made a mistake.
Update us on what happens! I've been dealing with a similar issue for 8 months now and still haven't gotten it fully resolved. Make sure to keep detailed notes on every conversation, including the ID number of every IRS employee you talk to.
Don't forget about workers' comp insurance! While not technically a "tax," it's calculated based on payroll and is required in most states. The rate varies by the type of work your employees do. For a bakery, your rates might be higher than some office jobs because of potential injuries from equipment, burns, etc. Each employee's wages get multiplied by the rate for their job classification. Keep this in your calculations because it's a significant payroll expense that catches many new business owners by surprise!
Omg I didn't even think about workers comp! Do I calculate that the same way as the other payroll taxes? Is there a standard percentage for bakery workers?
You don't calculate workers comp the same way as payroll taxes. You'll need to contact an insurance provider who offers workers compensation insurance in Illinois. They'll assign classification codes based on the type of work (bakers might be code 9083) and give you a rate per $100 of payroll for each classification. The rates for bakery workers vary widely by state, but in Illinois, you might expect something around $1.50-$3.00 per $100 in payroll, depending on your claims history and other factors. So if you have $10,000 in monthly payroll, you might pay $150-$300 monthly for coverage.
Plz dont make the mistake i made... i tried to do my own payroll and messed up the calculations so bad that i ended up owing like $2300 in penalties and interest. seriously consider just paying for a payroll service like gusto or quickbooks payroll, its like $45/month + $6 per employee which seems like a lot but way cheaper than the mistakes youll probably make trust me when i say the IRS doesnt mess around with payroll taxes!!! they hit u with penalties superrr fast if u mess up
Juan Moreno
Something nobody's mentioned yet - if you're renting the garage to your own business, you need to be careful about the rental amount. The IRS will look for fair market value, especially in related party transactions. If you charge your business significantly above market rate for the garage space, that could trigger scrutiny regardless of the Augusta Rule situation. Have you considered having the business purchase the garage outright through a partial property sale? That might be cleaner from a tax perspective, though it comes with its own complications regarding property division.
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Justin Trejo
ā¢That's a really good point about the fair market value. I've been researching comparable workshop spaces in my area to make sure I'm charging a reasonable amount. Would you recommend getting some kind of formal appraisal to document the fair market rental value? I hadn't considered selling the garage space to the business - that seems complicated since it's on the same property lot. Wouldn't that create zoning issues or require subdividing the property?
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Juan Moreno
ā¢A formal appraisal would be ideal for documentation, but even gathering 3-5 comparable rental listings from your area can serve as reasonable support for your rental rate. Save screenshots or printouts of similar workspace rentals to keep with your tax records. You're absolutely right about the complications with selling just the garage. Unless your property is already zoned for mixed use, you'd likely face zoning issues. Subdividing residential property to sell a portion to a business entity is possible but extremely complex and might trigger reassessment of property taxes or other consequences. The rental approach you're considering is likely simpler from a practical standpoint.
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Amy Fleming
Quick question - would converting the garage into legal living space (adding bathroom, kitchen, etc.) change this situation at all? I'm in a similar spot but was thinking of making my garage into an ADU that I could rent to my business partners when they visit for quarterly meetings.
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Alice Pierce
ā¢If you convert it to a legal ADU with living facilities, it would likely be considered a separate dwelling unit entirely. This could actually work in your favor for the Augusta Rule because each dwelling unit gets its own 14-day exemption. Just make sure the conversion is permitted and up to code, otherwise you could have issues with both the IRS and local authorities.
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