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One thing nobody has mentioned yet - have you looked into Section 382 limitations? If you're considering incorporating a new business that might eventually use these NOLs, you should know that there are strict rules about ownership changes when NOLs are involved. Section 382 of the tax code limits how much of an NOL can be used after an "ownership change." The IRS doesn't want people trading companies just for their tax attributes. So if you start a new corporation that you want to eventually use these losses in, be very careful about any ownership changes, investment rounds, etc. I had a client with substantial NOLs who unknowingly triggered Section 382 limitations by bringing in new investors, and it severely restricted how much of their NOLs they could use each year going forward.
Does this Section 382 stuff apply to all business types or just C-corps? I've got an S-corp with some losses and am thinking about bringing in a partner next year. Would that trigger these limitations?
Section 382 primarily applies to C corporations, not pass-through entities like S corporations where losses generally flow through to shareholders. However, S corporations that were previously C corporations and are carrying C corporation NOLs would still be subject to these limitations. For your S-corp situation, adding a partner wouldn't trigger Section 382, but it could affect how losses are allocated among shareholders. When ownership percentages change in an S-corp, it can affect the allocation of losses based on each shareholder's basis and the number of days in the tax year that each ownership percentage was in effect. Different rules apply, but you should definitely consult with a tax professional before adding that partner.
Might be an unpopular opinion but with a loss that big ($2.8 million) I wouldn't rely on forum advice. This is definitely "hire a tax attorney who specializes in business losses" territory. The consultation fee will be worth it because they might identify options none of us here would know about. Different business structures, potential for a partial sale of rights, reorganization possibilities - these are complex areas with lots of exceptions and special rules. A specialist might find creative but fully legal approaches that could help you monetize at least some portion of these losses.
You're absolutely right. I appreciate all the advice here, but I think I do need professional help with this. Does anyone have recommendations for how to find a tax attorney who specifically specializes in business losses and NOLs? Is there a particular certification or background I should look for?
Look for a tax attorney who is also a CPA - that combination is powerful for complex business tax issues. I'd specifically ask potential attorneys about their experience with NOL monetization strategies and business restructuring for tax purposes. The best ones will typically have backgrounds working at either the IRS, major accounting firms in their business tax departments, or law firms with dedicated tax practices. You want someone who has actually handled similar situations, not just someone who understands the general tax code.
Have you checked if you qualify for an Offer in Compromise? If you truly can't pay the full amount, sometimes the IRS will settle for less. You have to prove financial hardship though. Also, double check your return for errors. Sometimes software makes mistakes with credits or deductions, especially with the child tax credit in your situation. Might be worth having a professional take a quick look.
I've heard about the Offer in Compromise but don't think we'd qualify since we both have stable jobs. We're not destitute, just don't have $7k liquid cash sitting around. Do you know if they ever offer compromises for people with regular incomes who just can't pay a large lump sum?
You're right that OIC is tough to get with stable income. It's usually for people with serious financial hardship where they'll likely never be able to pay. For your situation, a payment plan is probably more realistic. If the lump sum is the issue but you could manage it over time, definitely go with the installment agreement. Pro tip: if you can pay it off within 180 days, you can set up a short-term payment plan with no setup fee at all. Otherwise, the long-term plans have reasonable monthly minimums based on how much you owe.
Just a heads up - if you adjusted your W4s for this year, DOUBLE CHECK them again. My husband and I did the "two earners/multiple jobs" worksheet and still ended up owing. The worksheet is outdated and doesn't account for higher incomes properly. We finally figured out we needed to add about 12% extra withholding beyond what the worksheet suggested. Basically take your combined income, figure out your tax bracket, and make sure you're withholding at least that percentage across both jobs.
This is really good advice. The IRS has a Tax Withholding Estimator on their website that's much more accurate than the worksheet. It lets you put in both spouses' income and gives you the exact dollar amount to put on line 4(c) for extra withholding.
One thing nobody mentioned yet - if you filed through a tax preparer like H&R Block or TurboTax, sometimes they have additional tools or resources to help track your refund or explain statuses like Tax Topic 152. I had this same issue last year and when I logged into my TurboTax account, they had more detailed tracking info than the IRS website provided. Plus they had an explanation of what Tax Topic 152 usually means for different filing situations.
Which tax software gives the most detailed tracking? I used FreeTaxUSA this year and their tracking doesn't seem to have any more info than the IRS site.
In my experience, TurboTax and H&R Block tend to have the most detailed tracking features built into their apps and websites. They pull data from the IRS but present it in a more user-friendly format with better explanations. FreeTaxUSA is great for filing affordably, but their after-filing support isn't as robust as the premium services. TaxAct falls somewhere in the middle - better tracking than FreeTaxUSA but not quite as comprehensive as TurboTax.
Tax Topic 152 actually showed up on my return status for about 3 weeks last year. I claimed both EIC and the Child Tax Credit. The bars disappeared and I got that topic message instead. I freaked out at first, but then my refund suddenly appeared in my account with no other updates or notices. The WMR tool never even updated to "approved" status for me - it went straight from Topic 152 to "refund sent" after it was already in my account. So sometimes the system just doesn't update properly even though your refund is being processed normally. The IRS systems are ridiculously outdated.
That's actually reassuring! Did you do anything special to get your refund moving or did it just suddenly appear one day? I'm hoping mine moves along without me having to do anything.
Something nobody's mentioned yet: check your local laws regarding short-term rentals! Many cities have restrictions or outright bans on Airbnb-type rentals, especially in apartment buildings. You'd hate to set this all up, deal with the tax complications, and then get shut down by your city or landlord. Also, most leases have clauses against subletting, so you might be risking eviction. The tax benefits (or lack thereof) might be the least of your worries!
I actually tried doing exactly what you're describing last year! Here's how it played out tax-wise: I rented a 2-bedroom apartment for $1,900/month and sublet one room on Airbnb. Made about $9,800 for the year in rental income, and claimed expenses of: - 50% of rent ($11,400) - 50% of utilities ($2,200) - New furniture ($1,700) - Cleaning supplies, sheets, etc ($800) - Internet upgrade ($580) So I showed a loss of about $6,880, but my accountant explained I couldn't use it against my W2 income because: 1. It's considered a passive activity loss 2. The $25K exception requires ownership 3. I didn't qualify as a real estate professional The losses got suspended and I can only use them against future rental income. It was still worth it financially because the Airbnb income offset a good chunk of my rent, but didn't help with taxes like I'd hoped.
Wait, aren't you technically running a business though? Could you have classified it as self-employment instead of rental activity? Then maybe the losses would apply differently?
I asked my accountant about that too! She said it depends on the level of services provided. If you're just providing basic rental amenities (bed, bathroom, etc.), it's still rental activity. If you're providing substantial services like daily cleaning, meals, concierge services, etc. - more like a B&B - then it might qualify as a business rather than rental activity. In my case, I wasn't providing those "substantial services" so it still counted as rental activity with all the passive loss limitations.
Jamal Wilson
Don't forget that different providers have different processing times! I set up my solo 401k with Fidelity last year on December 29th and it was fine, but a friend tried with Vanguard on the 30th and had issues because they needed like 5-7 business days to process. Call your intended provider RIGHT NOW to check their specific requirements!
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NebulaNova
β’Shoot I didn't even think about that! I was planning to go with Schwab. Does anyone know how long they typically take to process?
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Jamal Wilson
β’With Schwab, you're cutting it close but might still be okay. Last I checked, they can typically establish a solo 401k within 1-2 business days if all your paperwork is complete and accurate. I'd recommend calling them directly ASAP though - their customer service can tell you exactly what you need and might even be able to expedite the process if you explain the deadline situation. One important thing: make sure you have your EIN ready! If you don't already have an Employer Identification Number from the IRS for your business, you'll need that before opening a solo 401k. That's another process that could add time.
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Mei Lin
Just to clarify something important - there's a difference between ESTABLISHING the plan and CONTRIBUTING to it. Dec 31 is the deadline to establish the plan document. But you actually have until your tax filing deadline (usually April 15 of the next year) to make your employee contributions, and if you file an extension, you have until Oct 15 for your employer contributions. So don't stress too much about moving the money tonight!
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Liam Fitzgerald
β’This is great information but I'm still a bit confused. So if I just get the paperwork submitted tonight, I'm good? And then I can actually fund it later? Does the solo 401k need to be with the same bank where I have my business checking account?
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