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Help needed with IRS civil penalty for tax refiling misunderstanding

My wife was convinced by her cousin that if we refiled our past tax returns (which were done by a professional), we could receive significant refunds from the IRS due to some "wages versus earnings" classification loophole. I honestly don't understand the details. Her cousin apparently did this and got back around $28K for returns going back 5 years. So my wife went ahead and did the same thing without fully consulting me or our tax professional. Now we've been hit with a civil penalty from the IRS. We tried disputing it and have been working with our tax guy, but he's been pretty useless throughout this whole ordeal - definitely the last year we're using him. We're completely in the dark about what happened. The penalty is for $13,500 which we absolutely cannot afford. The IRS offered a payment plan with interest accumulating at about $1 per day, which means we'll basically be paying forever without making progress on the actual balance. I don't understand how they can penalize us this severely for what seems like a misunderstanding, or exactly what my wife did that triggered this penalty. They've also kept our 2022 tax refund (approximately $3,200) but haven't applied it to our outstanding balance even though they claim to have received it. We're in Virginia, living paycheck to paycheck with no kids. I can't afford to hire an attorney. Are there any solutions or options available to us? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Zadie Patel

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Make sure you understand what your wife actually filed! There's a common tax scam where people claim their W-2 wages should be reclassified as "non-taxable" based on misinterpreting Section 861 of the tax code. The IRS has specifically listed this as a "frivolous tax position" which automatically triggers a $5,000 penalty per return. Did her cousin actually get $20k back or is that just what she claimed? Many people who promote these schemes lie about their success to recruit others.

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This 861 provision scam has been going around Facebook in my community too. A guy at my job tried it and now he's facing like $25,000 in penalties! The IRS doesn't mess around with these frivolous filings.

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I'm really sorry you're going through this situation. Based on what you've described, it sounds like your wife may have fallen victim to one of the most common tax scams out there - the "wages are not income" or Section 861 argument that's been circulating for years. Here's what I'd recommend as immediate steps: 1. **Get your tax transcripts** - Request account transcripts for all the years involved from the IRS website. This will show exactly what was filed and what penalties were assessed. 2. **Contact the Taxpayer Advocate Service** - They're independent from the IRS and specifically help people in financial hardship situations like yours. Call 877-777-4778 or find your local office online. 3. **Look into First-Time Penalty Abatement** - If this is your first major compliance issue, you may qualify to have some penalties reduced or eliminated. 4. **Consider an Offer in Compromise** - Given your financial situation, you might be able to settle for much less than the full amount owed. The fact that your 2022 refund hasn't been applied to your balance is concerning and should be addressed immediately. The IRS should be able to explain where that money went when you contact them. Don't give up - there are options available even when you can't afford an attorney. The key is understanding exactly what was filed and then working through the proper channels to address it.

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Facing a Huge Tax Bill Due to Missing Federal Withholding

Hey everyone, Sorry about the formatting, typing this from my phone. I just found out I'm likely facing a massive tax bill this year. My federal tax withholding was normal until August, but then something went wrong. Apparently my employer claimed I hadn't signed my withholding form, so I completed a new one. However, since then, I've discovered my federal withholding basically stopped completely. I've checked my paystubs and I've only had about $19k in federal taxes taken out this year. Meanwhile, my state tax withholding is around $15k. For context, I make $230k annually. I only realized something was off when I got my year-end bonus which seemed unusually large - turned out there was zero federal tax withheld from it. The HR person who handles our payroll is out on medical leave until mid-January, so I can't even figure out what happened until then. I'm freaking out because I definitely don't have like $60k sitting around to pay a tax bill in April. I'm considering picking up weekend contract work to try to save up whatever I can before the tax deadline. I've literally never owed anything to the IRS before - last year I actually got a $22k refund! I know I should've caught this sooner, but this year has been brutal with some health issues I've been dealing with. I was just focused on getting better and keeping my job for the health insurance. Any advice on what I can do to minimize the damage or make this situation less terrifying would be so appreciated.

Nia Harris

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Quick clarification on one thing - did you notice if they're withholding for Social Security and Medicare still? Sometimes when federal income tax withholding stops, it can affect these too. If those also stopped, that's an even bigger issue and might indicate something seriously wrong with how your employer is handling payroll.

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GalaxyGazer

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This is actually a really important point. SS and Medicare are fixed percentages (6.2% and 1.45%) that should always be withheld up to certain income limits. If those stopped too, the employer could be in serious trouble.

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Nick Kravitz

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I'm sorry you're going through this stressful situation. As someone who's dealt with payroll issues before, I'd suggest a few immediate steps: First, gather all your paystubs from the entire year and create a spreadsheet tracking what was withheld each pay period. This will help you pinpoint exactly when the federal withholding stopped and give you documentation if needed. Second, since your HR person is out until mid-January, try to escalate this to their supervisor or the finance department. A complete stop in federal withholding for months is a serious payroll error that needs immediate attention, especially since it's affecting your tax liability. Third, consider making estimated tax payments for the fourth quarter if you haven't already. Even though the quarterly deadline has passed, you can still make payments to reduce your April bill. The IRS website has calculators to help estimate what you should pay. Finally, don't panic about the $60k figure - that's likely an overestimate. With your income level and the $19k already withheld, your actual liability will probably be lower. The IRS is generally reasonable about payment plans for taxpayers who are proactive about resolving issues. Document everything about this payroll error - you may need it to support a reasonable cause argument if penalties are assessed.

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Buying a business: How does bonus depreciation work for ATM routes and car washes?

Hey all, I'm primarily a tech guy working as a software developer with a pretty solid W2 income (around $550k annually). I've been building a portfolio of rental properties (currently have about 15) but I'm hitting the passive loss limitations since my income is mostly active. I'm looking at businesses that would allow me to meet material participation requirements without consuming all my free time - things like short-term vacation rentals, car washes, ATM routes, or car rental businesses. What I'm struggling with is understanding how bonus depreciation works when acquiring these types of businesses. For example, I'm looking at an ATM route with about 30 machines that's selling for $250k based on cashflow, even though the actual machines themselves might only be worth $85-100k. Can I claim 60% bonus depreciation on the entire $250k purchase price in year 1? Or am I limited to depreciating 60% of the actual machine value ($85-100k)? Similarly, with a car wash priced around $1.3M - since car washes qualify as special use buildings with 15-year depreciation schedules, could I accelerate 60% of the purchase price minus the land value? Should I be talking to a CPA who specializes in these business acquisitions or a real estate attorney? I'm trying to legally defer taxes while building assets, not looking for anything sketchy. Ideally want something that doesn't require 40+ hours a week but where I can still meet material participation tests.

Lucas Adams

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For the car wash question - I purchased one last year for $1.2M. You're correct that they qualify as 15-year property under special use guidelines. We did a cost segregation study that broke it down roughly: - Land: $250k (not depreciable) - Building shell: $350k (39-year property) - Qualified Improvement Property: $420k (15-year, eligible for bonus) - Equipment: $180k (5-7 year property, eligible for bonus) So out of the $1.2M, about $600k was eligible for bonus depreciation. With the 60% bonus depreciation rate, I was able to deduct $360k in the first year plus regular depreciation on the remaining amounts. The cost seg study cost about $12k but saved me over $100k in taxes in the first year.

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This is incredibly helpful - thanks for sharing your real numbers. Did you find the car wash required a lot of your time to meet material participation, or were you able to hire a manager and still qualify?

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Lucas Adams

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I have a full-time manager running daily operations, but I still easily meet the material participation tests. I spend about 15-20 hours weekly handling business strategy, marketing, equipment upgrades, reviewing financials, and site improvements. The IRS has multiple tests for material participation. Since I spend more than 500 hours annually (one test) and my participation constitutes substantially all the participation in the activity (another test), I qualify even with a manager handling day-to-day stuff. Just make sure you're genuinely involved in significant management decisions, not just pretending. Keep a detailed log of hours and activities - email timestamps, calendar appointments, phone logs all help substantiate your claim.

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This is exactly the kind of strategic tax planning I wish I had understood earlier in my career. As someone who's been down a similar path with high W2 income and rental properties hitting passive loss limits, I can relate to your situation. One thing I'd add to the excellent advice already given - consider the timing of these acquisitions carefully. With bonus depreciation phasing down (60% in 2024, 40% in 2025, 20% in 2026), there's a real advantage to moving quickly if you find the right opportunity. Also, don't overlook the importance of having systems in place before you buy. I made the mistake of acquiring a business without proper time-tracking systems set up from day one. Going back to reconstruct hours for material participation documentation was a nightmare during my first audit. For what it's worth, I've found that businesses with some level of recurring revenue (like ATM routes) tend to be easier to manage while still meeting material participation requirements compared to completely transactional businesses. The ongoing relationship management and performance monitoring naturally creates documentation-friendly activities. Have you considered starting with one smaller acquisition to test your systems and comfort level before diving into something like a $1.3M car wash? The learning curve on the tax optimization side can be steeper than expected.

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This is really solid advice about starting smaller to test systems first. I'm curious - when you mention "recurring revenue" businesses being easier for material participation documentation, do you have experience with other types beyond ATM routes? I'm weighing ATM routes against something like a small self-storage facility or even a coin laundry. The self-storage seems like it might have similar recurring revenue characteristics but potentially less hands-on maintenance requirements. Have you found certain business types are more audit-friendly than others when it comes to proving material participation? Also, your point about the bonus depreciation phase-down is well taken. With my income level, even a 20% difference in first-year deductions could mean $50k+ in tax savings timing. Definitely something to factor into the decision timeline.

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Jason Brewer

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For anyone just starting with an LLC, I highly recommend getting a tax professional specifically experienced with small businesses to help you setup. I tried DIYing my LLC taxes for the first year and missed so many deductions. Spent $450 on an accountant the second year who saved me over $6,000 in taxes with proper planning and restructuring. Some things shouldn't be learned through trial and error.

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Just want to echo what Jason said about getting professional help - the tax implications of mixing different income streams through an LLC can get complex quickly. One thing I learned the hard way is that you'll also want to make sure you're making quarterly estimated tax payments since you won't have taxes withheld from your 1099 income. The IRS expects you to pay as you go, and if you wait until year-end to pay everything, you could face underpayment penalties even if you file on time. With Door Dash income being irregular, it can be tricky to estimate, but it's better to overpay slightly than get hit with penalties. You can always adjust your next quarter's payment if needed. Also consider opening a separate savings account just for tax money - set aside about 25-30% of your 1099 income immediately so you're not scrambling to find the money when quarterly payments are due.

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This is really helpful advice about quarterly payments! I'm just getting started with my LLC and hadn't even thought about the estimated tax payments yet. Quick question - when you say set aside 25-30%, is that of the gross income from Door Dash or after deducting expenses like mileage? I'm trying to figure out how much to actually put away each week so I don't get caught off guard.

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I think what's happening is like when you order a package online - sometimes the tracking never updates but the package still arrives. TPG is like the tracking system that's broken, but your money is still moving through the system. I'd give it until tomorrow morning before getting too worried. Almost everyone I've seen posting with similar dates has gotten their refund within 48 hours of TPG showing 'funded' even without emails or trace numbers.

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Filed 2/26 here too and going through the exact same thing! TPG has shown "funded" since Tuesday but still no TurboTax email or trace number. After reading everyone's experiences, I'm feeling much more confident that the money is probably already on its way. It's reassuring to know this seems to be a widespread issue with their notification systems rather than something wrong with my specific return. Going to stop obsessively checking TPG every few hours and just wait for my bank to process it. Thanks everyone for sharing your timelines - really helps with the anxiety!

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Daryl Bright

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I'm in the exact same situation! Filed 2/26 and TPG has been showing "funded" since Wednesday morning, but no email from TurboTax and no trace number. This thread has been so helpful - it's clear this is a system-wide issue with their notifications, not our individual returns. I was starting to worry something went wrong, but seeing everyone's experiences makes me feel much better. Definitely going to stop checking TPG constantly and just wait for my bank. Thanks for posting this - knowing others are experiencing the same thing really helps!

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