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For what it's worth, I've been in tax for 20+ years and consistently use 7 years for restaurant POS systems. The language in Rev. Proc. 87-56 is pretty clear if you look at Asset Class 57.0. Also, consider that franchise agreements typically last 10-20 years, and the POS systems are usually required by the franchisor as part of the agreement. The systems are designed to last substantially longer than general computer equipment.
Thanks for your insight! That's a really good point about the franchise agreement duration and the fact that the franchisor requires specific POS systems. In your experience, do fast food franchisors typically require POS system replacements or major upgrades during the franchise term? Or do they generally last the distance?
In my experience, most fast food franchisors require major POS upgrades every 5-7 years, but not complete replacements. The hardware components might get swapped out, but that's often handled as repair and maintenance rather than a new capital expenditure. Franchisors are primarily concerned with system uniformity across all locations. They want consistent reporting, menu management, and customer experience. So even if the technology could physically last longer, franchise requirements often dictate the practical useful life.
Has anyone dealt with POS systems that have integrated payment processing hardware? Our client has those Square-type systems that combine traditional POS functions with the credit card reader. Would those components potentially be treated differently?
In my experience, even with integrated payment processing, the entire unit is still treated as a single asset under the 7-year class life. The IRS generally doesn't want us breaking down assets into components unless they're truly separate and distinct assets.
To get back to the original question about the Cohan rule - I'm a bookkeeper and see clients try to abuse this all the time. They'll come in with almost no records and expect to claim thousands in deductions "because of the Cohan rule." The reality is much different. In practice, the IRS is very strict about applying this rule, especially for theft losses. They typically expect: 1. A timely filed police report 2. Insurance claim documentation 3. Original purchase documentation or other proof of value 4. Evidence that you've exhausted recovery options Even with all that, they often allow only a percentage of the claimed amount when the Cohan rule is involved. And they're much more likely to scrutinize these claims during an audit. The bottom line: Can you "get away" with claiming fake theft losses? Maybe in the short term, but it's fraud, and if you're audited, you'll face serious consequences including penalties, interest, and potential criminal charges for tax evasion.
So what if you genuinely had something stolen but have very little documentation? Like I had some camera equipment stolen from my car last year (did file a police report) but don't have receipts for everything. Can I still claim anything?
Yes, you can still claim something with limited documentation. Having the police report is already a good start. For the value, gather whatever evidence you can - credit card statements from when you purchased the items, photos of the equipment, insurance documentation, even screenshots of similar items with comparable age/condition showing current market value. The Cohan rule might help you establish the value based on your partial records, but you'll need to show you're making a good faith, reasonable estimate. Document your estimation method carefully. For example, "Camera body purchased approximately June 2023 for $X according to credit card statement, lens valued at $Y based on current market price of similar used equipment minus 30% for age/condition." The more detail and supporting evidence you provide, the stronger your position will be if questioned.
Small business owner here. I've been through two IRS audits in my 15 years of running my company. Here's my experience with the Cohan rule: The rule CAN be helpful when you have some documentation but not complete records. During my first audit, I had incomplete mileage logs but could prove my business travel through appointment calendars, receipts from destinations, etc. The auditor allowed a reasonable percentage of my claimed mileage using the Cohan principle. BUT - and this is a huge but - they will give you ZERO leeway on completely undocumented claims or things that seem fabricated. My second audit involved a contractor who gave me fake documentation for some work, and even though I genuinely paid for services, the IRS disallowed the entire deduction because they determined the documentation was not credible. Claiming fake theft losses would fall under fraud, not the Cohan rule. The rule helps honest taxpayers with imperfect records, not dishonest ones trying to create deductions.
I went through almost the exact same situation last year. The key is to NOT agree to the audit results until the withholding issue is resolved. Once you agree to the assessment, it's much harder to fix. Instead of following the auditor's advice, I submitted a formal response to the audit stating that I agreed with the tax assessment BUT noted that my W2 withholdings of $X amount hadn't been included in the calculation. I included copies of my W2s and requested that penalties be calculated only on the actual amount owed after withholdings. It took about 3 weeks longer, but they eventually sent a revised audit result that properly accounted for my withholdings and the penalties were calculated correctly from the start. Don't pay anything until this is straightened out!
Thanks for sharing your experience! That's really helpful. Did you respond directly to the auditor or did you have to send something to a different department? And did you use any specific IRS forms for your response?
I responded directly to the auditor using the response form they provided with the audit notice. The key was including copies of all my W2s and highlighting the withholding amounts on each one. I didn't use any special IRS forms - just a clear cover letter explaining that I agreed with their finding of additional tax owed, but disagreed with the penalty calculation because it didn't account for withholdings already paid. I specifically requested that they revise the penalties to reflect only the actual unpaid amount. The formal tone seemed to help get it processed correctly the first time.
Just to add another perspective - what the auditor told you is technically correct in terms of IRS procedure, but it's inefficient and potentially costly for you. The IRS often has different departments handle tax assessment (audit) and payment processing. When your audit is closed, your account should eventually reflect both the increased tax assessment AND your withholdings, but there can be timing gaps where penalties are calculated incorrectly. If you do follow the auditor's advice, make sure to follow up after paying to request a penalty abatement for the portion calculated on taxes you already paid through withholding. You can use IRS Form 843 for this. Include copies of your W2s showing the withholding.
I dealt with this exact K-1 nightmare last year. One option nobody's mentioned yet is to talk to the partnership itself. Sometimes they can make a special tax distribution just to cover the taxes on phantom income. In my case, I showed the managing partner my tax projection and they agreed to distribute enough cash to cover the extra tax burden. Also, check if your partnership agreement has any provisions about tax distributions. Some partnerships are required to distribute at least enough to cover each partner's tax liability on allocated income.
I never even thought about asking for a tax distribution! My brother is the managing partner, so maybe he'd be open to this. Do you know if there are any specific terms or language I should use when asking about this? And did you have to show any specific documentation to support your request?
Just be straightforward and show him your tax projection from your accountant that displays the difference between your distributed income and your taxable income from the K-1. The term you want to use is "tax distribution" - it's a common concept in partnership agreements. I showed my managing partner a simple spreadsheet showing my K-1 income, my tax bracket, and the resulting tax liability compared to my actual distributions. Many partnership agreements actually require tax distributions specifically to avoid this situation, so check your agreement too.
Has your accountant discussed form 8582 with you? That's the form for calculating passive activity limitations. Sometimes accountants miss opportunities to group activities together to meet material participation standards. You might also want to check if you qualify for the real estate professional exception if this is a real estate partnership.
Lucas Notre-Dame
One thing nobody's mentioned yet - if you file separately and want to take deductions like student loan interest, tuition and fees, or education credits, there are special rules. If you're married filing separately, you CANNOT claim the student loan interest deduction at all. And for some education credits, filing separately might make you ineligible too. Run the numbers both ways before deciding. In my experience, filing jointly almost always wins from a pure tax perspective. The financial aid question is separate and depends on your specific aid package.
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Jacob Smithson
ā¢This is super helpful! I had no idea about those limitations on education credits when filing separately. I think we'll definitely need to calculate it both ways. Do you know if standard free tax sites can show both scenarios accurately or do we need to use something more specialized?
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Lucas Notre-Dame
ā¢Most of the free tax sites can show you both scenarios, but you might need to create two separate tax returns (just don't file both!). Start one return as married filing jointly, note the refund/amount owed, then start a new return as married filing separately and compare. The standard sites aren't great at explaining the financial aid implications though. For that, you might want to talk to your wife's school financial aid office directly. They can often run projections showing how different income levels would affect her specific aid package. Some schools even have financial counselors who specialize in these situations.
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Aria Park
I'm still confused about FAFSA. I thought they changed the rules recently? Something about using different years for the income verification?
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Noah Ali
ā¢Yes, FAFSA made significant changes recently! Starting with the 2024-2025 FAFSA, they're using what's called the Student Aid Index (SAI) instead of the Expected Family Contribution (EFC). There are also changes to whose income is considered in the formula.
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