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This is such a frustrating situation, and unfortunately you're not alone in dealing with UBTI surprises from bankrupt MLPs. The key issue here is that bankruptcy debt forgiveness often gets misclassified by custodians. A few immediate steps I'd recommend: 1. **Request the complete bankruptcy settlement documents** from Fidelity - specifically look for how debt cancellation income was allocated between return of capital vs. taxable income. Many bankruptcy settlements classify a significant portion as return of capital, which shouldn't generate UBTI. 2. **Challenge the disproportionate allocation** between your accounts. With only 22% more shares in the Roth but 12x the tax liability, something is clearly wrong. The UBTI should be allocated proportionally to your ownership. 3. **File Form 5329 immediately** to request penalty relief due to reasonable cause (the custodian's late filing). This alone could save you significant money. 4. **Get professional help** - given the $20K+ potential liability, spending $500-1000 on a tax pro who specializes in UBTI/partnership taxation could save you thousands. The fact that multiple people in this thread have successfully contested similar situations with their custodians is encouraging. Don't just accept these numbers - the calculations are often wrong, especially for complex bankruptcy situations. Time is critical though - you typically have 60-90 days to contest these assessments, so act quickly.
This is exactly the roadmap I needed! I'm definitely going to follow these steps. One quick question though - when you mention requesting the "complete bankruptcy settlement documents," should I be asking Fidelity specifically for the court filings, or is there a particular document name I should use? I want to make sure I'm asking for the right thing so they don't just send me generic paperwork. Also, has anyone had success getting penalty relief on Form 5329 for this type of situation? I'm worried the IRS might not consider the custodian's late filing as "reasonable cause" for my penalty relief.
Ask Fidelity specifically for the "Plan of Reorganization" and "Disclosure Statement" from the CLPT bankruptcy case - these are the key documents that detail how debt cancellation and asset distributions were classified. You might also want to request the final K-1 package which should include explanatory statements about the bankruptcy treatment. Regarding Form 5329 penalty relief, custodian late filing is generally considered reasonable cause, especially when you had no control over the timing. I've seen several cases where the IRS granted relief in similar situations. The key is to clearly explain that the penalties resulted from your custodian's administrative error, not your own negligence. Include documentation showing when Fidelity actually filed the forms versus when they should have been filed. One other tip - if you get pushback from Fidelity's regular customer service, ask to speak with their "UBTI specialist" or "partnership tax department." The front-line reps often don't understand these complex situations, but they usually have specialized teams that handle these issues.
This is exactly why I always warn people about holding MLPs in retirement accounts - the UBTI complications can be nightmarish, especially during bankruptcy situations. What you're experiencing is unfortunately common: when MLPs restructure debt during bankruptcy, the forgiven debt often gets treated as taxable income to partners, even when you've lost your entire investment. It's one of the most unfair aspects of tax law. The massive difference between your IRA and Roth tax liability is a red flag though. UBTI calculations should generally be proportional to ownership, so having 12x the tax on only 22% more shares suggests a calculation error. Here's what I'd do immediately: 1. **Don't pay anything yet** - you likely have 60-90 days to contest these calculations 2. **Request the bankruptcy Plan of Reorganization** from Fidelity - this document will show exactly how debt forgiveness was supposed to be allocated (often much of it is return of capital, not income) 3. **Get the detailed UBTI calculation worksheets** - custodians often use generic templates that don't account for specific bankruptcy terms 4. **File Form 5329 for penalty relief** - the custodian's late filing gives you strong grounds for "reasonable cause" I've seen many cases where initial UBTI calculations from bankruptcies were wrong by tens of thousands of dollars. The custodians just don't have the expertise to properly interpret complex bankruptcy settlements. Given the amounts involved, this is definitely worth hiring a tax professional who specializes in partnership taxation. A $1,000 consultation could easily save you $15,000+ in taxes and penalties. Don't let Fidelity brush you off - escalate to their UBTI specialists if needed. You have rights here, and these calculations are often wrong.
This is incredibly helpful advice! I'm definitely not paying anything until I understand exactly how these calculations were done. The 12x difference between accounts with similar investments makes no sense at all. I had no idea that bankruptcy debt forgiveness could be classified differently - the idea that some of it might be return of capital rather than taxable income gives me hope that this nightmare might be fixable. One question though - when you mention escalating to Fidelity's "UBTI specialists," do you know if they actually have people who understand these complex bankruptcy situations? I'm worried I'll just get transferred around to different departments who don't really know what they're talking about. Also, does anyone know roughly how long the process typically takes to get these calculations reviewed and potentially corrected? I'm stressed about the clock ticking on those contest deadlines while trying to gather all the documentation.
I went through this exact situation with a small construction company last year. Your instincts are absolutely right - you're being misclassified as an independent contractor when you're clearly an employee. The IRS has a 20-factor test they use to determine worker status, and based on what you've described (set schedule, using their equipment, following their instructions, no other clients), you definitely qualify as an employee. Here's what I learned from my experience: Document everything now. Keep records of your work schedule, any written instructions from your boss, photos of you using company equipment, and any communications about your work arrangement. This documentation will be crucial if you need to file Form SS-8 or Form 8919 later. The financial impact is significant - as a misclassified contractor, you'll pay about 15.3% in self-employment taxes instead of the 7.65% you'd pay as an employee (since your employer would cover their half). On a $40,000 salary, that's over $3,000 extra you'd be paying. I'd suggest having one more conversation with your employer, but this time come prepared with specific IRS guidelines printed out. Sometimes showing them the potential penalties they face (which can be substantial) helps them understand this isn't just about paperwork convenience. If they still refuse, you have options through the IRS, but be prepared that this might affect your relationship with the employer. Whatever you do, don't just accept it and hope for the best. This kind of misclassification is exactly what the IRS cracks down on, and you shouldn't have to bear the financial burden of your employer's mistake.
This is really helpful advice! I'm curious about the 20-factor test you mentioned - is that something I can find on the IRS website? I want to make sure I understand all the criteria before I approach my employer again. Also, when you say the penalties can be substantial for employers, do you know roughly what kind of amounts we're talking about? Having specific numbers might help make my case stronger.
The IRS actually updated their guidance and now uses a simpler three-category test instead of the old 20-factor test, though the principles are similar. You can find it in IRS Publication 15-A - it covers behavioral control, financial control, and type of relationship. As for penalties, employers can face some serious consequences. They're liable for back payroll taxes (both employer and employee portions), plus penalties that can be 20% or more of the unpaid taxes. For example, if they owe $5,000 in back payroll taxes, penalties could add another $1,000+. They might also owe interest on the unpaid amounts going back up to three years. The IRS can also assess what's called the "Trust Fund Recovery Penalty" which makes company owners personally liable for the unpaid taxes - this one really gets their attention since it can't be discharged in bankruptcy. When I presented these potential costs to my employer, they realized fixing the classification was much cheaper than risking an audit.
This is a really tough situation, but you're absolutely right to be concerned about the misclassification. Based on your description - fixed schedule, using company equipment, following their specific instructions, and having no other clients - you're clearly an employee under IRS guidelines. One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is that you might also be missing out on other employee protections beyond just the tax issue. As a misclassified "contractor," you're likely not covered by workers' compensation if you get injured on the job, you're not eligible for unemployment benefits if you're let go, and you're not protected by labor laws regarding overtime pay. I'd recommend calling your state's Department of Labor as well as dealing with the IRS issue. Many states have their own worker classification laws that are even stricter than federal guidelines, and they often have resources to help workers in your situation. Some states will actually investigate employers who habitually misclassify workers and can impose additional penalties. If you're worried about retaliation, keep in mind that it's illegal for employers to retaliate against workers who assert their rights regarding proper classification. Document any negative treatment that happens after you raise this issue - it could be important evidence if you need to file a complaint later. The bottom line is that this isn't just about paperwork convenience for your employer - they're essentially making you subsidize their business by shifting their tax obligations onto you. Don't let them get away with it.
As someone who's been through the ERC audit nightmare, I want to echo what others are saying about being extremely cautious. The fact that your online sales increased 18% while your physical location was closed actually works AGAINST you in an ERC claim. The IRS looks at whether your business as a whole was substantially impacted. If you were able to maintain or even grow revenue through alternative channels (online sales), they'll argue you successfully adapted and continued operations - which disqualifies you from the "suspension of operations" test. I'd strongly recommend getting a second opinion from a qualified CPA before moving forward with ANY ERC company, especially one that's pressuring you to act quickly. The legitimate credits are still there for businesses that truly qualify, but the audit risk is very real. I'm dealing with a $60K clawback demand right now because the ERC company I used didn't properly document our qualification. Don't let the size of the potential refund cloud your judgment - the penalties for incorrect claims are severe and the companies collecting fees upfront won't be there to help you when problems arise.
This is exactly the kind of real-world experience everyone needs to hear. The fact that you're dealing with a $60K clawback demand really drives home how serious this is. Can I ask - when you went through the audit, did the IRS focus mainly on the documentation issues or was it more about the fundamental qualification criteria? I'm trying to understand what specifically they look for when they decide a claim was improper.
I've been following this thread closely as someone who almost fell into the same trap with an ERC company last year. What saved me was doing exactly what several people here mentioned - I got multiple professional opinions before proceeding. The key issue with your situation (and what the ERC companies won't tell you) is that the IRS uses a "facts and circumstances" test for partial suspensions. Even if your physical location was completely shut down, if your business was able to continue operations and actually GROW revenue through other channels, the IRS will likely determine that your core business operations weren't suspended. The IRS specifically looks at whether the business found "comparable" ways to continue operations. In your case, the 18% growth in online sales during the shutdown period would be a major red flag in an audit. It suggests your business successfully pivoted rather than being suspended. I'd recommend documenting exactly what percentage of your pre-pandemic business came from the physical location versus online sales. If online was already your primary channel, you're almost certainly not going to qualify under the suspension test. And with these companies taking 20-30% fees upfront, you're risking a lot for what sounds like a very questionable claim. The horror stories in this thread about disappeared companies and audit nightmares should be all the warning you need. Trust your instincts - if something feels off, it probably is.
Does anyone know how long the VITA appointments typically take? Trying to figure out if I can do it during my lunch break or if I need to take time off work.
In my experience, plan for about 1-1.5 hours. They need time to review all your documents, input everything, and do the quality review. My appointment last year was scheduled for 45 minutes but ended up taking almost 2 hours because I had some self-employment income and education credits. Definitely wouldn't try to squeeze it into a lunch break!
Thanks for sharing this info about VITA and TCE! I had no idea these programs existed. As someone who's been paying $200+ every year to get my taxes done professionally even though I have a pretty simple return (just W-2 and student loan interest), this could be a game changer. I'm definitely under the $73k threshold and it sounds like the volunteers are well-trained and the returns get quality reviewed. My biggest concern has always been accuracy since I'm terrified of getting audited, but it sounds like these programs have good safeguards in place. Going to look up locations near me this weekend. Does anyone know if they typically have weekend hours or are most appointments during weekday business hours?
Most VITA sites do offer weekend hours since they know many people work during the week! In my area, several locations have Saturday appointments and some even do Sunday hours during peak tax season (February-April). I'd recommend checking the IRS VITA locator tool online or calling the sites directly - hours can vary quite a bit by location. Some are at libraries, community centers, or churches that might have more flexible scheduling. The religious organizations in particular often have weekend availability. You're smart to be concerned about accuracy, but honestly the quality review process at VITA is more thorough than what I've gotten from some paid preparers. Every return gets checked by a certified reviewer before it's filed. Plus, if there are any issues later, you can always contact the site coordinator for help.
Anastasia Sokolov
21 One other thing to consider - doing delivery work might affect your financial aid package if you're getting any for university. The extra income could potentially reduce your aid eligibility for the next academic year. Might want to check with your school's financial aid office about how that works before diving in.
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Anastasia Sokolov
ā¢4 Oh wow, I hadn't even thought about that aspect. Does anyone know if there's a certain threshold before it affects financial aid?
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Jade Lopez
Great question about financial aid! For FAFSA purposes, there's actually a student income protection allowance of around $7,040 for the 2024-2025 academic year. This means you can earn up to that amount without it affecting your Expected Family Contribution (EFC) at all. However, once you go over that threshold, about 50% of your additional income will be counted toward your EFC, which could reduce your aid eligibility. The exact impact depends on your total family income and circumstances. The good news is that business expenses (like mileage deductions for delivery driving) reduce your Adjusted Gross Income, so they help keep you under the threshold. If you're planning to do delivery work just during breaks, you might be able to stay within the protected amount anyway. Definitely worth having a conversation with your financial aid office before you start - they can run some scenarios to show you exactly how different income levels might affect your aid package.
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Zainab Ahmed
ā¢This is really helpful information about the income protection allowance! I'm curious though - when you mention that business expenses reduce your AGI, does that mean I should definitely track ALL my delivery-related expenses, not just mileage? Like even small things like phone chargers or hand sanitizer I buy for the car? Every little bit would help keep me under that $7,040 threshold, right?
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