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This is such a common source of confusion! I went through the exact same thing when I first started doing my own taxes. The key thing that helped me understand the discrepancy was realizing that the IRS online calculators often include assumptions about your filing status, deductions, and credits that you might not be accounting for in your manual calculations. A few things to double-check: 1. Are you using the correct tax year's brackets and standard deduction amounts? 2. Do you have any pre-tax deductions from your paycheck (like health insurance, 401k contributions, HSA contributions) that reduce your taxable income before the standard deduction is even applied? 3. Are you eligible for any tax credits that the calculator might be automatically including? Also, if you're getting a W-2, your employer has already been withholding taxes throughout the year based on your filing status and allowances, so your actual tax owed might be different from what you calculate as your total tax liability. The IRS calculator might be showing you what you still owe or your refund amount rather than your total tax. Try using the IRS's Interactive Tax Assistant tool - it walks you through step by step and explains each calculation, which might help you identify where the discrepancy is coming from.

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Nia Watson

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This is really helpful! I think you hit on something important about pre-tax deductions that I hadn't considered. I've been calculating based on my gross salary but completely forgot that my employer deducts health insurance premiums and 401k contributions before calculating my taxable income. That could easily account for a few thousand dollars difference right there. The Interactive Tax Assistant sounds like exactly what I need - I didn't even know that existed on the IRS website. Thanks for breaking this down so clearly!

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Isabella Santos

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I had this exact same confusion last year! What really helped me was breaking down my tax situation piece by piece. At $58,000, you're likely dealing with multiple factors that the IRS calculator accounts for automatically but aren't obvious when doing manual calculations. First, make sure you're using your actual taxable income, not your gross income. If you have employer-sponsored health insurance, dental, vision, or retirement contributions coming out of your paycheck, those reduce your taxable income before you even get to the standard deduction. Second, the IRS calculator might be factoring in estimated quarterly payments or withholdings from your paystubs that you haven't accounted for in your manual calculations. This could make it look like you owe less (or are getting a refund) when you're actually just seeing the difference between what you've already paid and what you owe. I'd suggest pulling out your most recent paystub and looking at the "year-to-date" taxable wages - that's the number you should be working with, not your salary. Then apply the standard deduction and work through the brackets step by step. The difference between your calculation and the IRS result will likely make much more sense once you're working with the same baseline numbers.

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Marina Hendrix

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Based on all the great advice here, I think you're definitely on the right track! Just to add one more perspective - I've been managing similar family financial arrangements for years, and the key thing that's helped me stay organized is treating these reimbursements exactly like what they are: returning someone's own money to them. The IRS really isn't concerned with family members splitting legitimate shared expenses. What they care about is actual income - money you've earned or been given as a gift. When your brother sends you $1,950 through Apple Pay to cover his portion of loans you paid, you're not $1,950 richer - you're just back to even. One practical tip: consider adding a note in the Apple Pay transaction like "student loan share" or "loan reimbursement." It's a small detail but helps create a paper trail showing the purpose of the payment. And definitely keep those loan payment receipts! The combination of consistent amounts, regular timing, and clear documentation makes it obvious these are reimbursements rather than income. You're being smart to think about this proactively, but honestly, this is a pretty straightforward situation tax-wise.

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Luca Conti

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This is really helpful advice! I'm new to managing shared expenses with family and have been nervous about doing everything correctly for taxes. The way you explained it - that reimbursements just make you "back to even" rather than richer - really clarifies things for me. I like the idea of adding notes to the Apple Pay transactions too. I've been sending money back and forth with my roommates for rent and utilities, and I never thought to include descriptions. Going to start doing that from now on to make everything clearer. Thanks for sharing your experience - it's reassuring to hear from someone who's been handling this successfully for years!

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Freya Thomsen

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I've been in a very similar situation with my sister and student loans! What really helped me was setting up automatic transfers through our bank rather than using payment apps. Since you mentioned you both have access to your parents' account, I'd strongly recommend going that route. Here's why: bank transfers create cleaner records, don't trigger any payment app reporting thresholds, and make it crystal clear these are family reimbursements rather than income. You can set up a recurring transfer for the same amount each month with a memo like "student loan reimbursement" - creates perfect documentation. I also keep a simple folder with copies of the actual loan statements and bank transfer confirmations, just to show the money flow if anyone ever asks. But honestly, after doing this for three years, it's never been an issue. The IRS guidance is pretty clear that family reimbursements for shared expenses aren't taxable income. One bonus tip: if your brother's payment schedule varies with his paychecks, you could still use the bank account method but just coordinate the timing with him via text. Much simpler than splitting Apple Pay payments and eliminates any potential confusion during tax season.

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Paolo Romano

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This bank transfer approach sounds really smart! I'm actually dealing with a similar situation where I cover my sister's portion of our shared car payment and she pays me back. I've been using Venmo but always worried about the paper trail. Quick question though - when you set up the recurring bank transfer, did you need any special documentation or approval since it involves family accounts? And does the "student loan reimbursement" memo actually show up on both accounts' statements? I want to make sure if I switch to this method that the documentation is clear on both ends for tax purposes.

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Mei Zhang

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Can someone explain the actual math difference between paying properly vs under the table? If I'm paying someone $20/hr for 40hrs/week, what's the actual cost difference?

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Liam McGuire

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Here's the quick math: $20/hr x 40hrs x 52 weeks = $41,600 annual wages Proper employment costs beyond wages: - Employer FICA (7.65%): $3,182 - FUTA (0.6% on first $7,000): $42 - State unemployment (varies, but ~2.7% on first $7,000): $189 - Workers comp (varies by industry, ~2-5%): ~$1,248 - Payroll service/software: ~$1,000 - Potential benefits/PTO: varies wildly So maybe $45,000-$50,000 total annual cost for a properly paid $20/hr employee vs $41,600 cash. BUT the properly paid wages are fully tax deductible, while the under-the-table wages aren't deductible at all.

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Lim Wong

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Thanks for breaking down the real costs, everyone. As someone who's been through this decision process, I want to emphasize that the "savings" from paying under the table are largely illusory once you factor in the lost tax deductions. When I calculated it for my business, paying a $40K employee properly costs about $45-48K total, but I get to deduct the full amount from my business income. If I'm in a 25% tax bracket, that deduction saves me $11-12K in taxes. So my real cost is more like $33-37K. Paying $40K under the table means no deduction, so I'm paying the full $40K after-tax dollars PLUS taking enormous legal and financial risks. The math just doesn't work unless you're planning to never report the income properly - which opens you up to fraud charges, not just tax penalties. The administrative burden of proper payroll is also much less scary than it seems. There are affordable payroll services that handle everything for under $100/month for a single employee.

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Fiona Gallagher

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This is exactly the kind of clear breakdown I was hoping to see! I'm in a similar situation with my small business and was getting overwhelmed by all the different numbers people throw around. The way you explained the tax deduction benefit really makes it click - you're not just paying the gross employment costs, you're getting a significant portion back through reduced business taxes. I hadn't thought about the after-tax dollars aspect either. When you put it that way, paying under the table actually costs MORE in real dollars, not less. Plus the stress of constantly worrying about getting caught would probably kill any perceived savings anyway. Do you have any recommendations for those affordable payroll services you mentioned? I'm ready to do this right from the start.

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Mason Kaczka

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Make sure you actually qualify for the American Opportunity Credit before accepting it! The requirements are different from the Lifetime Learning Credit. AOC can only be claimed for the first 4 years of post-secondary education and you must be pursuing a degree. LLC has no such restrictions.

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Sophia Russo

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Also AOC requires at least half-time enrollment while LLC doesn't. And there are different income phaseout limits too. Definitely double-check your eligibility!

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Gabriel Graham

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I checked and I do qualify - I'm in my third year of undergrad. Honestly I didn't pay close attention when entering my education expenses and just assumed I was getting the LLC. The software made the right choice but didn't clearly tell me what it was doing. Thanks for the heads up!

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Zara Malik

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This is such a common source of confusion! I went through the exact same thing last year. The key thing to understand is that most tax software has algorithms that automatically optimize your return by choosing the most beneficial credits and deductions available to you. What likely happened is the software determined you were eligible for both the Lifetime Learning Credit and the American Opportunity Credit, ran the calculations for both scenarios, and automatically selected the AOC because it resulted in a larger refund due to its partial refundability. The software should have shown you this switch somewhere in the review process, but it's often buried in the details and easy to miss. For future reference, you can usually find a summary of all credits applied in the final review section before filing. It's always worth double-checking that summary to understand exactly what credits and deductions are being claimed on your behalf. Your refund amount sounds completely legitimate if you qualify for the American Opportunity Credit!

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Isabella Costa

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This is really helpful context! I'm new to filing taxes with education expenses and had no idea the software would automatically switch between credits like that. It makes sense now why my refund was so much higher than expected - I was planning for the non-refundable LLC but ended up with the partially refundable AOC instead. Do you know if there's a way to see this optimization process happening in real-time, or is it always done behind the scenes? It would be nice to understand these decisions as they're being made rather than having to dig through forms afterward to figure out what happened.

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S-corp Basis Restoration for Debt with Carried Forward Losses

I've been trying to wrap my head around S-corp basis and debt restoration calculations where there are losses carried forward, and it's driving me crazy. I've gone through all the code sections, publications, and articles but can't find anything that specifically addresses how to handle the restoration calculations with loss carryforwards. I understand the basics - if current year items show a net increase, you restore debt basis before stock basis. I get the ordering rules for non-deductible items and the pro-rata recognition of gain on repaid debt. My confusion centers on Reg ยง1.1367-2(c)1 which states: "If there has been a reduction in the basis of an indebtedness of the S corporation to a shareholder under section 1367(b)(2)(A), any net increase in any subsequent taxable year of the corporation is applied to restore that reduction." The regulation defines "net increase" as "the amount by which the shareholder's pro rata share of income items exceed the loss/deduction items for the taxable year." This makes me think that if you had a carryforward loss from a prior year, it might not count in the net increase calculation. But I've also read that carryforward items become current year items in the following year. The interactions here are confusing me. Let me illustrate with an example: Year 1: Starting with $5,000 stock basis and $3,000 debt basis Losses of $15,000 reduce stock basis to $0, debt basis to $0, with $7,000 carried forward Year 2: Income of $4,000 If I DON'T include the $7,000 carryforward as a current year item, I'd have a net increase and could restore $3,000 to debt basis, with $1,000 to stock basis, and still have $6,000 loss carryforward. If I DO include the carryforward as a current year item, I'd apply all $4,000 to stock basis, recognize $3,000 gain on loan repayment, and still have $3,000 loss carryforward. The difference compounds in Years 3 and 4, leading to very different timing of income recognition. Are carried forward losses considered "current year items" for calculating the "net increase" for debt basis restoration purposes?

Mikayla Brown

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Has anyone here used Form 982 when dealing with S-corp debt issues? I've been reading that canceled S-corp debt can sometimes be excluded from income under certain circumstances, and Form 982 might apply. Seems related to this basis discussion but I'm not clear on how it all fits together.

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Sean Matthews

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Form 982 is for debt cancellation, which is different from what's being discussed here. This thread is about basis calculations when the shareholder has loaned money to their S-corp and how those loans affect loss limitations. Form 982 comes into play when debt is forgiven or canceled. For example, if your S-corp owed money to a bank that later forgave that debt, Form 982 might allow you to exclude that canceled debt from income if you meet certain requirements like insolvency. They're related concepts but used in different scenarios. The basis rules here are about tracking your investment in the company (both equity and loans) to determine how much S-corp loss you can personally deduct.

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Amara Okafor

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This is exactly the kind of S-corp basis question that keeps me up at night! I've been dealing with a similar situation where my client has multiple years of suspended losses and we're trying to figure out the optimal timing for debt basis restoration. From everything I've researched and discussed with other practitioners, the consensus seems to be that Isaac Wright is correct - the "net increase" calculation under Reg ยง1.1367-2(c) looks only at current year items before considering carryforward losses. The restoration happens first, then suspended losses are applied against the restored basis. What's been tricky for me is documenting this properly on the returns. I've started creating detailed basis tracking schedules that show the step-by-step calculation: current year income/loss, net increase determination, debt basis restoration, stock basis restoration, then application of suspended losses. It helps clients understand why their tax liability might be different from what they expected. One thing I'd add to this discussion - make sure you're also considering the impact of distributions during years when you have suspended losses. The ordering rules get even more complex when you layer in distributions alongside the basis restoration calculations.

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Thank you for bringing up the distribution ordering rules - that's another layer of complexity I hadn't fully considered! You're absolutely right that distributions can really complicate the basis restoration calculations, especially when they occur in the same year as income that could restore basis. From what I understand, distributions reduce basis before the year-end basis adjustments for income/loss items, which means timing becomes crucial. If a shareholder takes a distribution early in the year before the S-corp generates income, it could trigger gain recognition even if there would have been sufficient basis to cover the distribution by year-end after considering the restoration rules. Do you have any specific approaches for advising clients on distribution timing when they have suspended losses and potential debt basis restoration? I'm thinking it might be worth having quarterly basis calculations to help them make informed decisions about when to take distributions versus waiting for basis restoration. Also, do you use any particular software or tools for those detailed basis tracking schedules you mentioned? I've been doing them manually in Excel but I'm wondering if there's a better approach for complex multi-year situations.

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