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Ask the community...

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Is forming an LLC legal if it hasn't generated any revenue yet?

I need to set up a bank account so I can create a business PayPal account to accept subscription payments for my service. My business model is similar to Netflix, offering monthly subscriptions for access to content. I know there are ways to have a business bank account without formally creating an LLC, but for personal reasons, I really need to establish the LLC before launching my service to the public. The thing is, I'm completely lost when it comes to business accounting and tax obligations. I don't have much money saved up, not even enough for a basic consultation with an accountant. My current plan is to form the LLC, launch my service, and then once I've earned around $1,000 (which I'm hoping is sufficient for an accounting consultation), I'll hire a professional to handle everything from that point forward. My main concern is that I have no guarantee I'll make even a single dollar in the first few months after launch. I'm optimistic, but realistic. I want to make sure I'm following all legal requirements for business formation and tax compliance. Would it be considered illegal to form an LLC without immediately hiring an accountant because the business hasn't generated any income yet? I imagine that would only become a problem if I were to make substantial money (like $10,000) and then wait until the following year to consult an accountant. I fully intend to hire an accountant once the business generates enough income to afford one. Can anyone give me a ballpark figure on what I might expect to pay for accounting services for a small subscription-based LLC? I want to launch with everything legally established, but I'd prefer to wait until there's actual revenue before investing in accounting services. Any advice from those with experience would be greatly appreciated.

Andre Dupont

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One important thing nobody's mentioned yet - make sure you check your state's requirements for ongoing LLC compliance! In my state (California), you have to pay an $800 annual franchise tax just to maintain your LLC, regardless of whether you make any money. I learned this the hard way and got hit with penalties because I thought "no income = no taxes." Keep in mind there might be: - Annual state fees/franchise taxes - Annual reports/statements of information - Business license renewals - Registered agent fees These costs exist even when you're pre-revenue, so factor them into your startup budget. Each state is different, so check your specific location.

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Zara Khan

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Thanks for bringing this up - I hadn't even considered state-specific fees. Do you know if there's an easy way to find out what my state requires without having to navigate through confusing government websites? I'm in Texas if that helps.

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Andre Dupont

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Texas is actually one of the better states for LLCs! They don't have the annual franchise tax minimum that California has (the $800 I mentioned). Texas does require you to file a "Public Information Report" annually, but there's typically no fee if your revenue is below certain thresholds. The Texas Secretary of State website is relatively straightforward compared to most states, or you can just Google "Texas LLC annual requirements" for a summary. The main thing you'll need to budget for is the initial filing fee when forming the LLC (around $300 in Texas). Much better than California where you'd be paying $800 every year regardless of profit!

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Don't overthink this! I formed my LLC 2 years before I made a single dollar. Just keep your business and personal finances separate from day one (separate bank account is a must), track all expenses meticulously, and save receipts for everything. For accounting software, check out Wave - it's completely free for basic accounting and receipt tracking. You can connect your business bank account and it'll pull in all transactions automatically. When you start making money, I'd recommend getting professional help around the $5k revenue mark. Before that, most accountants will charge you more than they're saving you.

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ThunderBolt7

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Is Wave really completely free? What's the catch? I've been looking at QuickBooks but the monthly subscription feels steep when I'm not making money yet.

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Ella Cofer

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Wave is genuinely free for basic accounting features - they make money by offering paid services like payroll processing and payment processing for invoices. The core accounting software (expense tracking, basic reports, bank connections) is completely free with no limits. I've been using it for 18 months now and haven't paid a cent. The only "catch" is that their customer support is limited for free users, and some advanced features require upgrading. But for a new LLC just tracking expenses and basic income, it's perfect. Much better than paying $30/month for QuickBooks when you're not even making money yet.

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The 8879 confused me too! My tax guy said it's like giving permission for him to "sign" the 1040 electronically on my behalf. Basically the 8879 form is saying "I reviewed this return, it's correct, and I authorize you to submit it electronically with my electronic signature." In the olden days when everyone mailed paper returns, you'd sign the 1040 directly. Now with e-filing being so common, the 8879 replaces that physical signature step.

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Jamal Brown

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Does anyone know if its ok if I print the 8879, sign it by hand, then scan and email it back? Or do I need some kind of digital signature software?

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Amina Diallo

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Yes, printing, signing by hand, scanning and emailing back is totally fine! That's actually how most people handle the 8879. You don't need any special digital signature software - a regular handwritten signature on the printed form is completely acceptable. Just make sure the scan is clear and readable. Your tax preparer needs to be able to see your signature clearly for their records. Most phone cameras these days take good enough photos too if you don't have access to a scanner.

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Luca Romano

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Thank you so much for asking this question! I was literally in the exact same boat last month and was stressing about it too. It's totally normal to be confused about this - the whole e-filing process isn't super intuitive when you're new to it. What everyone else said is spot on: the Form 8879 IS your signature for e-filed returns. Think of it this way - when you sign the 8879, you're basically telling your tax preparer "Yes, I've reviewed my return, everything looks correct, and I authorize you to submit this electronically on my behalf." The IRS accepts this as equivalent to you physically signing the 1040. The signature line you see on the actual 1040 form is only used for paper returns that get mailed in. Since your preparer is e-filing, that line stays blank and the 8879 takes its place. You're definitely not missing anything or doing anything wrong! One tip: make sure you actually review your return carefully before signing the 8879, since that signature confirms you've looked everything over and it's accurate. But sounds like you're already being thoughtful about the process, so you should be all set!

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This is such a reassuring explanation, thank you! I'm also relatively new to filing taxes independently and the whole process can feel overwhelming. It's really helpful to know that being confused about these forms is totally normal. One follow-up question - when you say "review your return carefully before signing the 8879," what specific things should I be looking for? I know to check basic info like my name and SSN, but are there other important details that people commonly miss? I want to make sure I'm being thorough but I'm not sure what a proper review should include.

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Received CP05 Letter After Amended Return - Avoided $5,000 Frivolous Filing Penalty But Now Under "Further Examination" - Anyone Still Get Their Refund?

Filed my return in February and had to amend in June. Just got a CP05 letter and I'm completely lost. Starting to lose hope about getting my refund. So here's the situation. I filed my original return back in February, but then realized I needed to make some changes so I submitted an amended return in June. I just received a CP05 letter from the IRS dated July 1, 2024, acknowledging my response from June 30, 2024. The letter states: "Thank you for your response of June 30, 2024. We're sending your response, dated June 30, 2024, to the office at the address at the end of this letter because: Your amended return corrected your frivolous position; therefore, you will not be assessed the $5,100.00 frivolous filing penalty. However, your amended return included other changes which require further examination. You will be contacted if additional information is needed to process your case." I'm not sure what "frivolous position" they're referring to, but apparently my amended return fixed that issue. But now they're saying my other changes need "further examination" which sounds like more delays. The letter also mentions: "Find tax forms or publications by visiting IRS.gov/forms or calling 800-TAX-FORM (800-829-3676). If you have questions, you can call 866-883-0235. If you prefer, you can write to the address at the top of the first page of this letter. When you write, include a copy of this letter, and write your telephone number and the hours - can reach you. Keep a copy of this letter for your records. Thank you for your cooperation." Has anyone else received this verification letter and still eventually received their refund? How much longer should I expect to wait? I'm really starting to lose hope about ever seeing my money.

I'm going through almost the exact same thing right now! Filed in March, amended in July, got my CP05 in October. The "frivolous position" thing freaked me out at first but my tax preparer explained it's usually something minor that gets flagged by their system. The good news is you avoided that huge penalty! I've been checking my transcripts weekly and calling every month or so. No movement yet but the IRS rep told me amended returns with CP05 letters are taking 4-6 months minimum this year due to staffing issues. I know the wait is killing you (trust me, I feel it too) but from everything I've read here and other forums, most people do eventually get their refunds. Keep your documentation ready and maybe try calling that number if you haven't heard anything by the 4-month mark. We got this! šŸ’Ŗ

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This gives me so much hope to hear from someone in almost the exact same timeline! šŸ™ Your tax preparer's explanation about the "frivolous position" being something minor makes total sense - I was really confused about what that even meant. It's crazy that amended returns are taking 4-6 months minimum now, but at least we know it's not just us. I've been hesitant to call because I figured they'd just tell me to wait, but maybe I'll try next month if nothing changes. Thanks for the encouragement - it really helps to know we're not alone in this! šŸ’Ŗ

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LongPeri

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Hey Ryan, I totally get your frustration - I went through something very similar last year and the waiting was absolutely nerve-wracking! The good news is that CP05 letters, while scary, are actually pretty routine when you file an amendment. The fact that they specifically acknowledged your amended return "corrected your frivolous position" and you avoided that $5,100 penalty is HUGE - that's a major win right there! The "further examination" part sounds intimidating but it's basically just their way of saying they need to manually review your changes, which unfortunately takes forever with their current staffing issues. From my experience and what I've seen others post here, most people with CP05 letters do eventually get their refunds - it just takes way longer than anyone wants. My advice: keep checking your online account transcripts regularly (look for any 846 refund codes), and if you hit the 120-day mark with no communication, definitely call that 866 number. I know the wait is brutal but try to stay positive - you're actually in better shape than you might think! šŸ¤ž

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QuantumQuest

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How long has it been since you filed? Are you checking account daily? Did you have credits on your return? Need answers fast. Planning my budget around this.

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I can relate to the anxiety of waiting! Filed 2 weeks ago and have been in the same boat - checking transcript multiple times daily with no updates. Based on what others are sharing here, it sounds like this timing mismatch happens more often than I thought. The key takeaway seems to be that IRS systems aren't always synchronized, so refunds can be processed and deposited before transcripts reflect the changes. Though Keisha's warning about potential adjustments is definitely something to keep in mind - might be worth keeping that refund money untouched for a few weeks just in case there are any corrections needed later.

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@Tyler Lefleur That s'really solid advice about keeping the refund money untouched for a while! I m'in a similar situation - filed around the same time and have been obsessively refreshing my transcript with zero updates. It s'reassuring to hear from everyone that this timing disconnect is more common than expected. I think I ll'take your approach and try to be patient while keeping an eye out for any potential adjustments. The waiting game is definitely stressful when you re'trying to plan finances!

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I'm in week 4 post-verification and this thread is both reassuring and terrifying! What strikes me is how wildly different everyone's experience has been - from 11 days to 3+ months. I called last Friday and the agent told me my verification was "processed successfully" but my return is in "manual review" which could take "several more weeks." The lack of consistency in their answers is maddening. At least now I know from Paolo's comment that 9 weeks is actually the official timeline, not the 21 days they advertise everywhere. I'm going to try that early morning calling strategy Ava mentioned - maybe getting through at 6:58 AM will get me a more definitive answer about where I actually stand in their queue.

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Ana Rusula

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The inconsistency in agent responses is really frustrating! I had a similar experience where one agent told me 3-4 weeks, another said 6-9 weeks, and a third couldn't even confirm my verification went through properly. It's like they're all reading from different scripts. That early morning calling tip is gold though - I tried it last month and got through in under 20 minutes vs the usual 2+ hour waits. Even if they can't speed up the process, at least getting a human who can see your actual account status beats staring at that useless "still processing" message on WMR. Hang in there!

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Zainab Omar

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I went through this nightmare last year and can totally relate to your frustration! After doing both online and phone verification (same as you), I waited exactly 47 days to get my refund. What really helped was keeping a detailed log of every interaction - dates of verification, confirmation numbers, agent names when I called. The IRS system is so inconsistent that having your own paper trail becomes crucial if something goes wrong. One thing I learned: the "21 days" they advertise is basically meaningless after verification. Think of it more like 6-10 weeks realistically. I know it's torture when you're used to instant everything (your crypto comparison is perfect!), but try to set your expectations for the longer timeline. The money will come, it's just their archaic system moving at government speed.

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