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Yara Nassar

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Has anyone used the IRS's worksheet for calculating NOLs with the 80% limitation? I found it super confusing because there seem to be different versions and some don't clearly address how to handle current year expenses vs. carryover amounts.

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Keisha Williams

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I've used the worksheet in Publication 536. It's not very user-friendly but it does separate current year losses from carryover calculations. The key is to complete your entire tax return first, calculate your taxable income before any NOL deduction, then apply the 80% limit to determine how much of your carryover NOL you can use.

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Paolo Ricci

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I've found that most tax software doesn't handle NOLs well at all, especially with all the tax law changes. I ended up creating my own spreadsheet based on the IRS worksheets but modified to clearly show which years' NOLs are subject to which limitations. I can share it if you're interested.

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Serene Snow

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The IRS worksheets can definitely be confusing! I've been dealing with NOL calculations for my consulting business for several years now. What helped me was understanding that the calculation happens in stages: 1) Calculate your current year taxable income INCLUDING all current year business expenses and deductions 2) Apply the 80% limitation to that final taxable income amount 3) Use your NOL carryovers up to that 80% limit The tricky part is that different tax years' NOLs follow different rules. My 2017 NOLs can offset 100% of income, but my 2021+ NOLs are limited to 80%. I keep a simple tracking spreadsheet that shows each year's NOL balance and which limitation applies. One thing that caught me off guard - if you have NOLs from multiple years, you generally have to use them in chronological order (oldest first). This can affect your tax planning since the older NOLs might have more favorable rules. @Paolo Ricci I'd actually love to see that spreadsheet you created if you're willing to share it! The IRS worksheets are really hard to follow.

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Need help understanding how IRS Form 8919 works for employee misclassification

Hey everyone, I'm pretty clueless when it comes to taxes. Even though I've been working since I was 19 (I'm 24 now), I still struggle with basic tax stuff and usually have my mom handle my tax returns. I started working for my uncle's small medical practice as his office admin back in March. Before me, he didn't have any actual "employees" - just independent contractors - so he had no system set up for withholding taxes from paychecks. I figured we'd sort it out before I earned too much to worry about owing a bunch next year, but then COVID flared up again and the Department of Labor got swamped with claims. My uncle has apparently submitted paperwork to be able to withhold my taxes, but we're stuck in limbo waiting to hear back from the DOL. I've tried calling the state multiple times but either get disconnected or listen to ringing for literally an hour before giving up. I've been trying to research this myself but honestly get lost in all the tax jargon. I've come across Form 8919 for misclassified employees, but I don't really understand how it works? Does Form 8919 somehow retroactively withhold my share of taxes? Or am I completely misunderstanding what it does? Will filing this form prevent me from owing a ton when tax time comes? I've been setting aside about 20% of each paycheck following my mom's advice, but with my hours being cut recently, it's getting hard to keep that up. Really worried about getting slammed with a huge tax bill next April :

KylieRose

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Just to clarify something important - Form 8919 doesn't eliminate your tax liability. You still owe the income tax on all those earnings. What Form 8919 does is ensure you're only paying the employee portion of Social Security and Medicare taxes (7.65%) rather than the full self-employment tax rate (15.3%). For someone in your tax bracket, you should probably be setting aside around 15% for federal income tax PLUS the 7.65% for Social Security/Medicare. So that 20% your mom suggested might actually be a bit low depending on your total annual income. I'd recommend using the IRS Tax Withholding Estimator tool to get a more precise figure based on your specific situation.

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KylieRose

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State taxes would be in addition to the federal taxes I mentioned, and they vary significantly depending on which state you're in. Some states have no income tax (like Texas and Florida), while others have rates up to 13% (California). You can use your state's department of revenue website to find a withholding calculator specific to your location. For most people, setting aside another 5-7% for state taxes is reasonable, unless you're in a no-income-tax state or a high-tax state like California or New York.

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Giovanni Mancini

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This is really helpful clarification! I'm in Pennsylvania, so I'll definitely need to factor in state taxes too. Between federal income tax, Social Security/Medicare, and state taxes, it sounds like I should probably be setting aside closer to 25-30% of my gross pay to be safe. That's a lot more than I was planning for, but better to be prepared than get hit with a huge bill next April. Thanks for mentioning the IRS Tax Withholding Estimator - I'll check that out this weekend.

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Luca Bianchi

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One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is that you may want to make quarterly estimated tax payments to avoid underpayment penalties. Since your uncle isn't withholding taxes yet, the IRS expects you to pay taxes throughout the year, not just at filing time. If you expect to owe more than $1,000 when you file, you should be making quarterly payments by January 15th, April 15th, June 15th, and September 15th. You can use Form 1040ES to calculate these payments, or pay online through the IRS Direct Pay system. This is especially important since you mentioned your hours being cut - if you can't consistently set aside 25-30% from each paycheck, making sure you at least hit the quarterly payment deadlines can help you avoid additional penalties on top of what you already owe. The penalty for underpayment can be around 8% annually, which adds up quickly on a large tax bill. Also, keep all documentation about your attempts to get properly classified as an employee - emails with your uncle, records of calls to the DOL, etc. This shows good faith effort to resolve the situation properly.

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Anthony Young

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You should definitely still make a payment now rather than waiting until April - every month you delay means more penalty interest accumulating. The $1,000 threshold refers to how much you'll owe when you file your return after accounting for any withholding or estimated payments you've already made. Since you missed the January deadline, you can make a catch-up payment now to cover both the January and April quarters, then stay on track with June and September. The IRS actually has a "safe harbor" rule - if you pay at least 90% of this year's tax liability OR 100% of last year's tax liability (whichever is smaller) through withholding and estimated payments, you can avoid underpayment penalties entirely. Your documentation sounds perfect! Screenshots of DOL wait times and texts with your uncle show a clear timeline of your good faith efforts. The IRS is generally reasonable when they can see you've been actively trying to resolve classification issues rather than just ignoring the problem. One more tip: when you do get connected to the IRS (whether through Claimyr or eventually getting through on your own), ask them about the "reasonable cause" exception for underpayment penalties given your misclassification situation. Sometimes they'll waive penalties when there are legitimate circumstances beyond your control.

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Nathan Dell

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You should still make a payment now even though you missed the January 15th deadline! The penalty is calculated based on how much you underpaid and for how long, so making a payment now will reduce the penalty compared to waiting until April. The IRS calculates penalties quarterly, so you'd only be penalized for the period you were short. The $1,000 threshold refers to your total additional tax liability after accounting for any withholding or estimated payments already made. So if your total tax bill is $3,000 but you've already had $2,500 withheld or paid through estimates, you'd only owe $500 additional and wouldn't trigger the penalty. Your documentation sounds perfect! Keep saving those screenshots and texts. The IRS looks favorably on taxpayers who can demonstrate they made reasonable efforts to comply with tax laws, especially in situations involving worker misclassification where the employer controls the classification decision. For the quarterly payment amount, you can either pay 25% of what you expect to owe for the full year, or use the "safe harbor" rule and pay 100% of last year's tax liability divided by 4 (110% if your prior year AGI was over $150k).

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Isabella Tucker

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For what it's worth, I had this exact same error last year. The problem was that I checked the box saying my main home was in the US for more than half the year, but then I incorrectly filled out Part I-B instead of Part I-A on Schedule 8812. Double check which part of Schedule 8812 you're completing. If you checked the US residency box, you should be filling out Part I-A, not Part I-B. The error happens when there's a mismatch between your residency selection and which calculation section you complete.

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Jayden Hill

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This is actually really helpful! I just checked my form and I think this is exactly what I did wrong too. I checked the US residency box but then filled out the wrong section below it.

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I had the exact same IND-460 error with Schedule 8812 last month and it drove me crazy! After hours of troubleshooting, I found the issue was in the calculation flow between forms. Here's what fixed it for me: Go to your Form 1040 Line 19 and write down that exact amount. Then go to Schedule 8812 and make sure you're using the correct worksheet (Part I-A if you're a US resident, Part I-B if not). The amount that flows to Line 15 on Schedule 8812 MUST match Line 19 on your 1040 exactly. The error happens because Free Fillable Forms doesn't automatically sync these amounts like paid software does. You have to manually ensure they match. Also double-check that you haven't accidentally entered the same child in multiple places or mixed up refundable vs non-refundable credit amounts. Once I made sure these numbers were identical and consistent with my residency status, the error disappeared and I could finally e-file!

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Are there ACTUALLY legitimate exemptions for filing Form 8621 for PFICs?

I recently found myself in a frustrating situation with my investments. I'm a US taxpayer (qualify through the substantial presence test for 2024) but now living back in my home country of Australia. Back in August, I invested about $65 in some foreign mutual funds through my local broker. I had no idea about the whole PFIC nightmare until I started looking into my tax obligations. Now I'm dealing with this Form 8621 requirement and it seems ridiculously complicated for such a small investment. I've been trying to make sense of the IRS instructions for Form 8621, which mentions something about a "$25,000 exception" on the last day of the tax year and not receiving excess distributions or recognizing gain on sale. The specific text says: "A shareholder is not required to complete Part I with respect to a specific section 1291 fund if the shareholder meets the $25,000 exception on the last day of the shareholder's tax year and the shareholder does not receive an excess distribution from, or recognize gain on the sale or disposition of the stock of, the section 1291 fund." But this seems to only exempt me from Part I of the form, not the entire thing? I'm confused because some people online claim there are exemptions, but the actual IRS instructions don't seem to fully back that up. So my questions are: 1. Am I understanding correctly that I still need to file Form 8621 even though my investment is well below $25,000? 2. Would it make more sense to just sell these funds now and pay whatever tax hits me (even if it's 50% of $65), or should I hold them through the year to avoid excess distributions (though I can't control if they issue dividends)? 3. Has anyone here filed this form before and can recommend a CPA who specializes in cross-border taxation, particularly with PFICs? This form looks way beyond my capabilities. Thanks for any guidance - this whole PFIC situation seems like massive overkill for such a tiny investment.

Freya Andersen

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Has anyone here successfully used the "domestic funds exception" for Form 8621? My understanding is that if you own PFICs through a domestic US mutual fund or ETF, you don't have to file Form 8621 yourself because the US fund does it. Would save me a ton of headache!

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Amina Sy

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Yes, that exception is real and very useful! If you own foreign companies/funds through a US-based ETF or mutual fund, the reporting obligation falls on the US fund, not you as the individual investor. This is one of the main reasons tax advisors often recommend US persons stick to US-domiciled funds even when investing internationally. For example, if you buy Vanguard's VXUS (their Total International Stock ETF), it holds thousands of foreign companies, some of which might be PFICs, but Vanguard handles all the PFIC reporting. You get the international exposure without the Form 8621 headache.

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Connor Murphy

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I went through almost the exact same situation last year with a small foreign fund investment that I had no idea would create such a tax nightmare. After lots of research and consulting with a tax professional, here's what I learned: You're correct that the $25,000 exemption applies to the ENTIRE Form 8621, not just Part I. The key is in Treasury Regulation 1.1298-1(c)(2) which provides complete relief from filing if you meet all the criteria. For your $65 investment, assuming you haven't received any distributions or sold any shares, you should qualify for the complete exemption. Just make sure to document this decision in case you're ever questioned. My advice? If you're planning to continue investing internationally, consider switching to US-domiciled international funds (like VTI or VXUS) to avoid future PFIC headaches entirely. The reporting requirements are so disproportionate to small investments that it's often not worth the hassle. Also, keep detailed records of your investment amounts and any distributions (or lack thereof) to support your exemption claim. The IRS burden of proof is on you to show why you didn't file if they ever ask.

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What to do with expenses on vacant Rental Property that hasn't sold in 4 months - tax treatment question

I've been searching everywhere for an answer to this and can't find anything clear. Hoping someone here can help! I have a rental property that I've owned since 2019 as an investment property. I decided to sell it and listed it in July, but the market has been super slow and it's been sitting vacant for about 4 months now. No takers yet. For the first 8 months of 2025, I collected rent as usual. After depreciation, the property was actually showing a loss (as it has every year since I bought it). I've been carrying over passive losses each year and they'll probably offset most of the depreciation recapture when I finally sell, hopefully by spring 2026. Meanwhile, I'm still paying all the usual expenses - property tax, insurance, utilities, HOA fees, sewer, trash collection, etc. My question is: When does the "business" of this rental property officially end for tax purposes? When I list it for sale or when it actually sells? Option 1: Keep treating it as a rental on Schedule E, continuing to depreciate and deduct expenses until it sells, even though there's no rental income coming in for these months. Then deal with depreciation recapture and capital gains when it sells. Option 2: Consider the rental business "ended" in 2025 when I listed it, and treat the last few months of expenses as part of my selling costs or basis in the property. I'm leaning toward Option 1 since it seems cleaner, but then I'd have a 2026 Schedule E with expenses but zero rental income, which seems odd. Any thoughts?

Ayla Kumar

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Don't overthink this. The property is still a rental until you sell it. Expenses still go on Sch E. If you get audited, the IRS isnt gonna care that it was vacant while u were trying to sell it. Happens all the time.

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Not sure this is universal advice. My cousin got audited specifically because he had a schedule E with only expenses and no income for almost a year. Ended up being ok because he could prove he was trying to rent it, but the IRS definitely does look at properties with expenses and no income.

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Ryan Vasquez

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I went through this exact situation two years ago with a duplex that sat vacant for 5 months while trying to sell. What really helped me was creating a clear paper trail showing my intent to sell rather than abandon the property. I kept copies of all MLS listings, price reduction notices, showing feedback, and even rejection letters from potential buyers. When I filed my Schedule E with expenses but no rental income for those months, I included a brief statement explaining the vacancy was due to active marketing for sale. The IRS never questioned it, but having that documentation gave me peace of mind. Also, make sure you're only deducting expenses that you would have paid anyway as a rental property owner - don't try to deduct any costs specifically related to marketing the property for sale, as those should be treated as selling expenses when you calculate capital gains. One tip: if you're doing any repairs or improvements to help with the sale, be careful how you categorize those. Minor repairs to maintain the property can still go on Schedule E, but major improvements to increase sale value should be added to your basis.

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