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Need help understanding how IRS Form 8919 works for employee misclassification

Hey everyone, I'm pretty clueless when it comes to taxes. Even though I've been working since I was 19 (I'm 24 now), I still struggle with basic tax stuff and usually have my mom handle my tax returns. I started working for my uncle's small medical practice as his office admin back in March. Before me, he didn't have any actual "employees" - just independent contractors - so he had no system set up for withholding taxes from paychecks. I figured we'd sort it out before I earned too much to worry about owing a bunch next year, but then COVID flared up again and the Department of Labor got swamped with claims. My uncle has apparently submitted paperwork to be able to withhold my taxes, but we're stuck in limbo waiting to hear back from the DOL. I've tried calling the state multiple times but either get disconnected or listen to ringing for literally an hour before giving up. I've been trying to research this myself but honestly get lost in all the tax jargon. I've come across Form 8919 for misclassified employees, but I don't really understand how it works? Does Form 8919 somehow retroactively withhold my share of taxes? Or am I completely misunderstanding what it does? Will filing this form prevent me from owing a ton when tax time comes? I've been setting aside about 20% of each paycheck following my mom's advice, but with my hours being cut recently, it's getting hard to keep that up. Really worried about getting slammed with a huge tax bill next April :

KylieRose

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Just to clarify something important - Form 8919 doesn't eliminate your tax liability. You still owe the income tax on all those earnings. What Form 8919 does is ensure you're only paying the employee portion of Social Security and Medicare taxes (7.65%) rather than the full self-employment tax rate (15.3%). For someone in your tax bracket, you should probably be setting aside around 15% for federal income tax PLUS the 7.65% for Social Security/Medicare. So that 20% your mom suggested might actually be a bit low depending on your total annual income. I'd recommend using the IRS Tax Withholding Estimator tool to get a more precise figure based on your specific situation.

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KylieRose

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State taxes would be in addition to the federal taxes I mentioned, and they vary significantly depending on which state you're in. Some states have no income tax (like Texas and Florida), while others have rates up to 13% (California). You can use your state's department of revenue website to find a withholding calculator specific to your location. For most people, setting aside another 5-7% for state taxes is reasonable, unless you're in a no-income-tax state or a high-tax state like California or New York.

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This is really helpful clarification! I'm in Pennsylvania, so I'll definitely need to factor in state taxes too. Between federal income tax, Social Security/Medicare, and state taxes, it sounds like I should probably be setting aside closer to 25-30% of my gross pay to be safe. That's a lot more than I was planning for, but better to be prepared than get hit with a huge bill next April. Thanks for mentioning the IRS Tax Withholding Estimator - I'll check that out this weekend.

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Luca Bianchi

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One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is that you may want to make quarterly estimated tax payments to avoid underpayment penalties. Since your uncle isn't withholding taxes yet, the IRS expects you to pay taxes throughout the year, not just at filing time. If you expect to owe more than $1,000 when you file, you should be making quarterly payments by January 15th, April 15th, June 15th, and September 15th. You can use Form 1040ES to calculate these payments, or pay online through the IRS Direct Pay system. This is especially important since you mentioned your hours being cut - if you can't consistently set aside 25-30% from each paycheck, making sure you at least hit the quarterly payment deadlines can help you avoid additional penalties on top of what you already owe. The penalty for underpayment can be around 8% annually, which adds up quickly on a large tax bill. Also, keep all documentation about your attempts to get properly classified as an employee - emails with your uncle, records of calls to the DOL, etc. This shows good faith effort to resolve the situation properly.

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This is excellent advice about quarterly payments! I had no idea about the underpayment penalties - that 8% rate is pretty steep. Since we're already past the January 15th deadline, should I still make a payment now or just wait until April? And when you say "expect to owe more than $1,000," is that the total tax liability or just the amount I'd owe after any withholding/payments already made? Also, great point about documenting everything. I've been keeping screenshots of my calls to the DOL showing the wait times, plus all the texts with my uncle about getting the tax situation sorted out. Hopefully that'll be enough to show I've been trying to handle this properly from the start.

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Isaiah Cross

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I've been dealing with Free Fillable Forms for years and that IND-460 error is honestly one of the most confusing ones they throw at you. What really helped me when I got stuck on Schedule 8812 was creating a simple checklist: 1. Verify your residency status selection matches the worksheet you're completing (Part I-A for US residents, Part I-B for others) 2. Make sure Form 1040 Line 19 and Schedule 8812 Line 15 have identical amounts 3. Double-check you didn't accidentally claim the same child multiple times 4. Confirm you're not mixing up the Additional Child Tax Credit (refundable) with the regular Child Tax Credit (non-refundable) The error message is technical jargon, but it's basically the system's way of saying "these numbers don't add up based on what you told us about your residency." Free Fillable Forms doesn't hold your hand like paid software, so you have to manually verify these connections between forms. If you're still stuck after checking these items, honestly just call the IRS using one of the callback services mentioned above. An agent can spot these issues in seconds once they see your actual forms.

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Rudy Cenizo

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This checklist is super helpful! I've been staring at this error for days and your step-by-step approach makes it so much clearer. I think my main issue was not understanding that Free Fillable Forms requires you to manually sync these amounts between forms - I kept assuming it would do that automatically like other software I've used before. Going to work through your checklist systematically and see if I can finally get past this error. Really appreciate everyone in this thread taking the time to break down such a confusing tax issue!

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Zainab Yusuf

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I ran into this exact same IND-460 error last tax season and it was incredibly frustrating! After reading through all these helpful responses, I want to add one more tip that finally solved it for me. The key thing I discovered is that the error often happens when you have qualifying children for the Child Tax Credit but accidentally entered information that makes the system think you're claiming the Credit for Other Dependents instead. Make sure on Schedule 8812 that you're only filling out the sections that apply to your specific situation. If you have qualifying children under 17, stick to the Child Tax Credit sections and leave the Other Dependent Credit sections blank. I was accidentally putting amounts in both sections, which created the mismatch the error is complaining about. Also, double-check that your children's ages and Social Security numbers are entered correctly - sometimes a simple typo can cause the system to treat a qualifying child as an "other dependent" instead, which throws off all the calculations. The community suggestions about using callback services or switching to paid software are spot-on if you're still stuck. These Free Fillable Forms errors can be real time-wasters, but they're usually fixable once you understand what the system is actually checking for.

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Sofia Price

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This is such a great point about accidentally mixing up Child Tax Credit vs Credit for Other Dependents! I bet that's exactly what happened to me. I have two kids under 17 but I think I might have been filling out sections for both types of credits without realizing they're mutually exclusive for the same child. Your tip about double-checking the ages and SSNs is really smart too - I never thought about how a simple data entry error could make the system categorize my qualifying children incorrectly. That would definitely explain why I'm getting this confusing error message about amounts not matching up. I'm going to go back and make sure I'm only using the Child Tax Credit sections for my kids and leaving all the Other Dependent sections completely blank. Thanks for adding this insight - it's exactly the kind of detail that these error messages never explain clearly!

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Are there ACTUALLY legitimate exemptions for filing Form 8621 for PFICs?

I recently found myself in a frustrating situation with my investments. I'm a US taxpayer (qualify through the substantial presence test for 2024) but now living back in my home country of Australia. Back in August, I invested about $65 in some foreign mutual funds through my local broker. I had no idea about the whole PFIC nightmare until I started looking into my tax obligations. Now I'm dealing with this Form 8621 requirement and it seems ridiculously complicated for such a small investment. I've been trying to make sense of the IRS instructions for Form 8621, which mentions something about a "$25,000 exception" on the last day of the tax year and not receiving excess distributions or recognizing gain on sale. The specific text says: "A shareholder is not required to complete Part I with respect to a specific section 1291 fund if the shareholder meets the $25,000 exception on the last day of the shareholder's tax year and the shareholder does not receive an excess distribution from, or recognize gain on the sale or disposition of the stock of, the section 1291 fund." But this seems to only exempt me from Part I of the form, not the entire thing? I'm confused because some people online claim there are exemptions, but the actual IRS instructions don't seem to fully back that up. So my questions are: 1. Am I understanding correctly that I still need to file Form 8621 even though my investment is well below $25,000? 2. Would it make more sense to just sell these funds now and pay whatever tax hits me (even if it's 50% of $65), or should I hold them through the year to avoid excess distributions (though I can't control if they issue dividends)? 3. Has anyone here filed this form before and can recommend a CPA who specializes in cross-border taxation, particularly with PFICs? This form looks way beyond my capabilities. Thanks for any guidance - this whole PFIC situation seems like massive overkill for such a tiny investment.

I went through almost the exact same situation last year with a small foreign fund investment that I had no idea would create such a tax nightmare. After lots of research and consulting with a tax professional, here's what I learned: You're correct that the $25,000 exemption applies to the ENTIRE Form 8621, not just Part I. The key is in Treasury Regulation 1.1298-1(c)(2) which provides complete relief from filing if you meet all the criteria. For your $65 investment, assuming you haven't received any distributions or sold any shares, you should qualify for the complete exemption. Just make sure to document this decision in case you're ever questioned. My advice? If you're planning to continue investing internationally, consider switching to US-domiciled international funds (like VTI or VXUS) to avoid future PFIC headaches entirely. The reporting requirements are so disproportionate to small investments that it's often not worth the hassle. Also, keep detailed records of your investment amounts and any distributions (or lack thereof) to support your exemption claim. The IRS burden of proof is on you to show why you didn't file if they ever ask.

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This is incredibly helpful advice, thank you! I'm definitely leaning toward just documenting my exemption claim and avoiding the Form 8621 filing altogether given the small amount involved. Your point about switching to US-domiciled international funds is spot on - I had no idea this PFIC nightmare existed when I made the investment. It seems like such a basic thing that should be more widely known among expats and international investors. One quick question - when you say "document this decision," what specific documentation would you recommend keeping? Just a simple written note explaining why I believe I qualify for the exemption, or something more formal? And do you know if there's any statute of limitations on how long the IRS could potentially question a decision not to file Form 8621 based on the exemption?

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I've been dealing with PFIC reporting for several years now, and I want to emphasize something important that hasn't been fully addressed here - the documentation piece is absolutely critical. When claiming the $25,000 exemption, you should keep a formal written memo in your tax files explaining: 1. The total value of all PFIC investments on the last day of your tax year 2. A statement that you received no excess distributions 3. A statement that you recognized no gains from sales/dispositions 4. The specific regulation you're relying on (Treasury Reg 1.1298-1(c)(2)) 5. Copies of year-end statements showing investment values Regarding the statute of limitations - generally it's 3 years from when you file your return, but it can be extended to 6 years if the IRS believes you understated income by more than 25%. For PFIC issues specifically, some practitioners argue there's no statute of limitations if you don't file the required forms, though this is debated. One more critical point: Make sure your foreign funds are actually PFICs before stressing about this. Not all foreign mutual funds qualify as PFICs - they need to meet specific income or asset tests. Sometimes what looks like a PFIC nightmare turns out to be a non-issue because the fund doesn't actually meet the PFIC definition. I'd recommend having a qualified international tax professional review your specific situation at least once, even if just for peace of mind. The cost is usually far less than the stress of wondering if you're compliant.

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Paolo Conti

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This is excellent advice about documentation! I'm a newcomer to this community but have been lurking and learning about PFIC issues as a US expat. Your point about creating a formal memo is really smart - I hadn't thought about documenting the reasoning in such detail. One question that occurred to me while reading through all these responses: How do you actually determine if a foreign fund meets the PFIC definition? Is this something the fund company will tell you, or do you need to research it yourself? Some of the funds I'm looking at don't clearly state whether they're PFICs in their documentation. Also, for someone just starting out with international investments, would you recommend proactively consulting with an international tax professional before making any foreign investments, rather than trying to figure it out after the fact like many of us seem to be doing?

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What to do with expenses on vacant Rental Property that hasn't sold in 4 months - tax treatment question

I've been searching everywhere for an answer to this and can't find anything clear. Hoping someone here can help! I have a rental property that I've owned since 2019 as an investment property. I decided to sell it and listed it in July, but the market has been super slow and it's been sitting vacant for about 4 months now. No takers yet. For the first 8 months of 2025, I collected rent as usual. After depreciation, the property was actually showing a loss (as it has every year since I bought it). I've been carrying over passive losses each year and they'll probably offset most of the depreciation recapture when I finally sell, hopefully by spring 2026. Meanwhile, I'm still paying all the usual expenses - property tax, insurance, utilities, HOA fees, sewer, trash collection, etc. My question is: When does the "business" of this rental property officially end for tax purposes? When I list it for sale or when it actually sells? Option 1: Keep treating it as a rental on Schedule E, continuing to depreciate and deduct expenses until it sells, even though there's no rental income coming in for these months. Then deal with depreciation recapture and capital gains when it sells. Option 2: Consider the rental business "ended" in 2025 when I listed it, and treat the last few months of expenses as part of my selling costs or basis in the property. I'm leaning toward Option 1 since it seems cleaner, but then I'd have a 2026 Schedule E with expenses but zero rental income, which seems odd. Any thoughts?

Ayla Kumar

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Don't overthink this. The property is still a rental until you sell it. Expenses still go on Sch E. If you get audited, the IRS isnt gonna care that it was vacant while u were trying to sell it. Happens all the time.

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Not sure this is universal advice. My cousin got audited specifically because he had a schedule E with only expenses and no income for almost a year. Ended up being ok because he could prove he was trying to rent it, but the IRS definitely does look at properties with expenses and no income.

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Ryan Vasquez

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I went through this exact situation two years ago with a duplex that sat vacant for 5 months while trying to sell. What really helped me was creating a clear paper trail showing my intent to sell rather than abandon the property. I kept copies of all MLS listings, price reduction notices, showing feedback, and even rejection letters from potential buyers. When I filed my Schedule E with expenses but no rental income for those months, I included a brief statement explaining the vacancy was due to active marketing for sale. The IRS never questioned it, but having that documentation gave me peace of mind. Also, make sure you're only deducting expenses that you would have paid anyway as a rental property owner - don't try to deduct any costs specifically related to marketing the property for sale, as those should be treated as selling expenses when you calculate capital gains. One tip: if you're doing any repairs or improvements to help with the sale, be careful how you categorize those. Minor repairs to maintain the property can still go on Schedule E, but major improvements to increase sale value should be added to your basis.

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This is really helpful advice about documentation! I'm curious though - when you say "minor repairs to maintain the property can still go on Schedule E" versus "major improvements to increase sale value should be added to your basis" - where do you draw that line? For example, if I replace old carpet with new carpet to help with showings, is that maintenance or an improvement? What about repainting rooms that were already painted but looked worn?

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Naila Gordon

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Has anyone considered the "relation-back doctrine" in this situation? According to my accountant, this is what applies to check payments rather than just constructive receipt. I was told that a check payment is considered made when the check is delivered as long as: - It's dated the day of delivery or earlier - It's delivered before year-end - There's no restriction on cashing it - It's cashed within a reasonable time (usually considered to be within 30 days) This is different from constructive receipt which is more about when the recipient should recognize income.

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Cynthia Love

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This is exactly right. The relation-back doctrine is what the IRS uses for check payments. I just had this issue come up in an audit for my small business. The agent specifically looked at the date on the check, the date of delivery (we had receipts for certified mail), and whether the checks cleared in a reasonable time. As long as all those conditions are met, you can claim the deduction in the year the check was delivered, even if it didn't clear until the next year. The key is having sufficient funds available when the check would have been presented - which sounds like the issue with the ACH hold.

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I went through something very similar with a year-end payment to a subcontractor. The IRS Publication 538 actually addresses this specific scenario under "Payment by Check" rules for cash basis taxpayers. The bottom line is that your deduction belongs in 2023 because that's when you delivered the check, regardless of the ACH processing delays between your accounts. The key factors that support this are: 1) You delivered the check on December 30, 2023 2) The contractor could have deposited it immediately (no restrictions) 3) You had initiated the transfer to ensure funds would be available The fact that ACH rules created a delay in your account doesn't matter for tax purposes - what matters is that you made the payment in good faith with reasonable expectation it would clear. Since it did clear without bouncing, you're golden for the 2023 deduction. For the contractor, they report it as 2023 income since that's when they received the check. The deposit timing is irrelevant under constructive receipt doctrine. Just make sure you keep documentation of the transfer initiation date and the check delivery date in case you ever need to support the timing during an audit.

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Justin Trejo

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This is really helpful! I'm new to dealing with rental property expenses and the timing rules. Just to make sure I understand - if I write a check on December 31st but know my account won't have funds available until January 3rd due to a pending transfer, that would still count as a 2023 deduction as long as the check eventually clears without bouncing? The "good faith" part seems like the key test here. Also, do I need to keep any specific documentation beyond just the cancelled check and bank statements showing the transfer? You mentioned keeping records of the transfer initiation date - is there a particular form or record that's most important for audit purposes?

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