ESD demanding $27,000 repayment after I won TWO appeals - how is this legal?

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this! Unfortunately, winning an appeal and getting an overpayment waiver are two separate processes with ESD. When you win an appeal, it typically just establishes that you weren't fraudulent or at fault for the overpayment. The waiver process is about whether you have financial hardship that justifies forgiving the debt. One important thing to note: if your appeals determined you weren't at fault, make sure the overpayment is classified as a "non-fraud" overpayment on your notices. If it's still showing as fraud-related, that needs to be corrected immediately. For your next appeal, focus specifically on financial hardship. You'll need to document: - Your current income (or lack thereof) - All monthly expenses (housing, utilities, medical, childcare, etc.) - Any assets you have (savings, property, etc.) - Any medical conditions or special circumstances that affect your ability to work They use a fairly specific calculation to determine "financial capability" - so you need to show that repayment would cause genuine hardship.

omg this EXACT thing happned to my cousin!!! he won his apeal but still got stuck with like $15k bill. ESD is such a mess seriously. they just want their money back no matter what!!!

There's a key distinction you need to understand here. An appeal ruling in your favor means you weren't at fault or fraudulent in receiving the benefits. However, that doesn't automatically mean you're exempt from repaying benefits that were technically paid in error. The waiver request is evaluated separately based on two factors: 1. Whether repayment would be "against equity and good conscience" 2. Whether you have financial ability to repay When appealing the waiver denial, focus specifically on RCW 50.20.190(2) which outlines the criteria for waiver approval. You'll need to demonstrate: - The overpayment was not your fault (which you've already proven) - That repayment would cause significant financial hardship - That your financial situation is unlikely to improve in the foreseeable future If your previous waiver application focused more on the unfairness aspect and less on detailed financial hardship, that might explain why it was denied. The new appeal should include a comprehensive financial statement with supporting documentation for all claims of hardship. Also, request an in-person hearing rather than a phone hearing if possible. It's harder for them to dismiss your situation when you're physically present.

this whole system is RIGGED against us!! i swear they make these processes so confusing on purpose so they can collect $$$ even when they know ur not at fault. its all about the money for them. they dont care if u have kids or medical bills or won ur appeal. i had something similar (smaller amount tho) and even with a lawyer i still had to pay back half of it. absolute garbage system.

I dealt with a similar situation last year and finally got my overpayment completely waived, but it took persistence. Here's what worked for me after multiple failed attempts: 1. I reached out to my state representative's office and explained my situation. Their constituent services team contacted ESD on my behalf which seemed to flag my case for closer review. 2. I submitted a more comprehensive financial hardship form with EVERY possible document - bank statements showing negative balances, medical bills, childcare expenses, rental agreement, utility bills, food expenses, etc. I also included a detailed narrative explaining why repayment would cause extreme hardship. 3. Most importantly - I was able to actually speak with an ESD agent who specialized in overpayment cases (not just the regular frontline agents). This was the game-changer. To get through to ESD directly, I used a service called Claimyr (claimyr.com) that helped me skip the wait times and connect with an actual agent. They have a video showing how it works: https://youtu.be/7DieNd3C7zQ?si=26TzE_zGms-DODN3 Once I finally got to speak with a higher-level specialist, they reviewed my case more thoroughly and recognized that while technically I had received benefits I wasn't eligible for, the financial hardship of repayment justified a full waiver. Don't give up - the system is frustrating but persistence can pay off!

ive been thru this exact thing and what nobody tells you is that winning an appeal just means they cant call it fraud. doesnt mean u dont have to pay it back! they have 2 separate systems - one for determining fault and one for determining if u have to pay. makes no sense but thats how it works my advice is try negotiating a payment plan for a tiny amount like $25 a month. they'll usually accept that and it keeps them from sending it to collections. they eventually might give up on collecting after a few years, happened to my brother

I'm a former employment law paralegal who's helped clients with this exact issue. Here's what many people don't realize: winning an appeal against an overpayment determination and getting an overpayment waiver are completely different processes under RCW 50.20. When you won your appeals, the judges determined you weren't at fault or didn't commit fraud in receiving the benefits. However, that doesn't automatically eliminate the overpayment itself. For the waiver request, ESD evaluates whether you can financially afford to repay and whether repayment would be "against equity and good conscience." They use specific financial guidelines for this assessment. For your next appeal, you need to include: 1. A detailed financial statement showing all income, expenses, assets, and debts 2. Documentation proving financial hardship (medical bills, past-due notices, etc.) 3. A clear explanation of why repayment would cause significant hardship 4. Future financial projections explaining why your situation isn't likely to improve soon 5. Reference to the specific circumstances that the judge already ruled on in your favor Also request a full conference record review from your previous appeal hearings to ensure all documentation is properly considered. Focus your argument on WAC 192-220-030, which outlines the equity and good conscience standards for waiver approval. This is different from the fault determination standards used in your previous appeals.

My sister had an overpayment of around $22k after the pandemic benefits ended. She won her appeal saying she wasn't at fault but still got stuck with the bill. She ended up having to set up a payment plan for like $50/month which basically means she'll be paying it forever. The whole system is ridiculous! By the way, has anybody tried contacting their state representatives about this stuff? I've heard sometimes they can help push things along with ESD?

I went through something very similar and it's absolutely maddening! What helped me was understanding that ESD has this bizarre two-track system - the appeal process determines fault/fraud, while the waiver process is purely about financial ability to repay. They're completely separate even though it makes no logical sense. A few things that made a difference in my case: - I got my state senator's office involved (seriously, call them!) - I resubmitted my waiver with way more documentation than I thought was necessary - Most importantly, I found out there's a difference between the standard waiver review and requesting a "conference" where you can actually speak to a decision-maker The conference option isn't well-publicized but you can request it in your appeal. Having someone actually listen to your situation rather than just reviewing paperwork on a checklist made all the difference for me. Also, make sure you're appealing the waiver denial and not just the overpayment itself - sounds like you might be mixing up the processes which is super easy to do since ESD doesn't explain any of this clearly. Don't give up! The system is designed to be confusing and exhausting, but persistence does pay off eventually.