Social Security spousal vs survivor benefits - what happens when spouse waits until 70?

That makes sense, thank you! So there's no spousal benefit advantage during my lifetime if I wait until 70, but there is a big survivor benefit advantage if I die first. That's helpful to know for our planning.

My mom got caught by this! She didn't know about the reduction for claiming spousal early and took it at 62. Big mistake, she only got like 32.5% instead of 50%!

I had the same issue with endless hold times, but I found a service called Claimyr that got me through to an SSA agent in under 20 minutes. They basically call SSA for you and when they get through, they connect you. I was skeptical at first but it worked great - saved me hours of frustration. You can see how it works at https://youtu.be/Z-BRbJw3puU or check out their website at claimyr.com

You're right to question it! I rounded my numbers up a bit for simplicity. My actual FRA estimate is closer to $2,680 according to my last Social Security statement. I've been fortunate to have a good income throughout my career.

That's a good point, but OP did mention his wife hasn't worked enough to qualify for her own benefit. But you're absolutely right about the complexity - the deemed filing rules trip up a lot of people.

She cannot receive a spousal benefit until you file for your retirement benefit. This is one of the trade-offs of the delayed claiming strategy. However, there's a potential workaround called "file and suspend" that used to allow this, but that loophole was closed in 2016 by the Bipartisan Budget Act. Now you must actually be receiving benefits for your spouse to collect on your record.

Look for a financial advisor who has the RSSA certification (Registered Social Security Analyst) or at minimum a CFP who specializes in retirement income planning. Many investment-focused advisors don't have deep knowledge of Social Security's complex rules.

Welcome to the community, Carmen! That's a really good point about the break-even analysis. I hadn't thought about factoring in the survivor benefit duration when calculating whether delaying makes sense. My wife is only 65, so if I pass away first, she could potentially receive that higher survivor benefit for 20+ years. That really changes the math compared to just looking at my own break-even point. Do you know of any good calculators that factor in both spouses' life expectancies and the survivor benefit piece?

@Connor Murphy There are several good calculators that can help with this analysis! The Social Security Administration s'own calculator at ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/estimator.html is decent but basic. For more comprehensive analysis that includes survivor benefits and joint life expectancy, I d'recommend checking out the calculators at FidSafe or Social Security Solutions. OpenSocialSecurity.com also has a free calculator that factors in both spouses. These tools let you input both your and your wife s'information and will show you different claiming strategies with their projected outcomes. Just remember that any calculator is only as good as the assumptions you put in - health, longevity expectations, other income sources, etc. It s'definitely worth running a few scenarios to see how sensitive the results are to different assumptions.

@Connor Murphy - I ve'found a few good calculators that help with this analysis. The AARP Social Security Calculator is pretty comprehensive and lets you input both spouses information.' Also, FidSafe has a decent one that factors in survivor benefits. But honestly, the best tool I ve'used is the Social Security Timing software - it costs about $40 but it really digs into all the scenarios including spousal/survivor benefits and break-even analysis for couples. Given the potential financial impact we (re'talking tens of thousands of dollars difference ,)it s'worth the small investment to get the calculations right.

@Connor Murphy, there are several good calculators that can help with this analysis! The AARP Social Security Calculator and the Financial Engines (now Edelman Financial Engines) tool both allow you to input both spouses' information and will show survivor benefit scenarios. The SSA's own calculator on ssa.gov is pretty basic but gives you the foundation numbers. For more sophisticated analysis that includes life expectancy and survivor benefits, I'd recommend the Social Security Timing calculator by T. Rowe Price - it's free and lets you model different claiming strategies with survivor benefit projections. Some fee-based tools like MaximizeMySocialSecurity.com are even more detailed if you want to pay for a comprehensive analysis. The key is to run scenarios where you model what happens if either spouse dies at different ages to see how the survivor benefit plays out over time.

@Connor Murphy There are a few good calculators that can help with this analysis! The AARP Social Security Calculator is pretty comprehensive and lets you input both spouses information.' Also check out the Social Security Administration s'own Retirement Estimator, though it s'less sophisticated for married couples. For a more detailed analysis that includes survivor benefits over time, I d'recommend the calculator at OpenSocialSecurity.com - it s'free and created by a financial planning software company. It lets you model different claiming strategies and shows the expected value for both spouses over various time horizons. Just remember that these calculators can t'account for everything like (future policy changes or your specific health situation ,)but they re'great for getting a baseline understanding of your options.

@Connor Murphy - There are a few good calculators that factor in survivor benefits! The AARP Social Security Calculator is pretty comprehensive and lets you input both spouses information.' OpenSocialSecurity.com is another free one that s'really detailed - it considers life expectancy, survivor benefits, and even spousal benefits timing. For something more sophisticated, I ve'heard good things about MaximizeMySocialSecurity though (that one costs money .)The key is finding one that lets you model different claiming strategies for both spouses and shows the total household lifetime benefits, not just individual benefits. Most basic calculators miss the survivor benefit piece which is huge for married couples.

@Connor Murphy There are several good calculators that can help with this analysis! The AARP Social Security Calculator is pretty comprehensive and lets you input both spouses information.' Social Security Solutions and Maximize My Social Security are paid services but they re'very thorough - they factor in survivor benefits, different claiming strategies, and life expectancy scenarios. For free options, the SSA s'own retirement estimator is basic but reliable, though it doesn t'do the comprehensive household optimization. I d'recommend running the numbers with a few different tools since they each have slightly different assumptions about inflation and life expectancy. The key insight you mentioned about your wife potentially receiving the higher benefit for 20+ years really does tip the scales toward delaying!

@Connor Murphy There are several good calculators that can help with this! The AARP Social Security Calculator and the Social Security Administration s'own Retirement Estimator are free options, though they re'somewhat basic. For more comprehensive analysis that includes survivor benefits and spousal considerations, I ve'heard good things about MaximizeMySocialSecurity.com there (s'a fee but it s'pretty thorough and) OpenSocialSecurity.com which (is free .)Another option is to use a fee-only financial planner who specializes in Social Security optimization - they often have access to more sophisticated modeling software that can run scenarios for both spouses life' expectancies and various claiming strategies. The key is finding a tool that lets you input both your health status/family longevity and your wife s,'since the survivor benefit calculation really does change the optimal strategy significantly.

There are several good calculators that can help with this analysis! The AARP Social Security Calculator is pretty comprehensive and factors in spousal scenarios. Also check out the SSA's own retirement estimator at ssa.gov, though it's more basic. For more sophisticated analysis that includes survivor benefits and life expectancy projections, I've heard good things about the calculators from Social Security Solutions and Maximize My Social Security (though those are paid services). The free ones should give you a good starting point to see how the delayed claiming strategy affects your household's total expected lifetime benefits.

@Connor Murphy There are several good calculators that can help with this analysis! The Social Security Administration s'own calculator at ssa.gov/planners/benefitcalculators.htm is basic but free. For more comprehensive analysis that includes survivor benefits and joint life expectancy scenarios, I d'recommend checking out calculators from companies like MaximizeMySocialSecurity or SocialSecuritySolutions - they typically charge a small fee but factor in both spouses situations.' Some financial planning software like eMoney or MoneyGuidePro also have robust Social Security optimization modules if your advisor has access. The key is finding one that lets you input both spouses health' status and family longevity history, since that really impacts whether the delay strategy makes sense for your specific situation.

@Connor Murphy Yes! The AARP Social Security Benefits Calculator is pretty comprehensive and lets you input both spouses information.' Also check out the Social Security Administration s'own calculator at ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/estimator.html. For more sophisticated analysis that includes survivor benefits over time, I ve'heard good things about MaximizeMySocialSecurity.com it (s'a paid service but thorough .)The key is running scenarios with different claiming ages and seeing how the total household lifetime benefits change. Don t'forget to factor in taxes too - higher benefits might push you into higher tax brackets!

@Connor Murphy - The SSA website has a basic life expectancy calculator, but you re'right that it doesn t'factor in the survivor benefit complexity. I ve'had good luck with the Social Security Timing calculator from Financial Engines now (Edelman Financial and) the Maximize My Social Security software, though that one has a subscription fee. Both let you model different claiming strategies for couples and show the survivor benefit impact. Also check if your local library offers free access to some of these premium calculators - mine does through their digital resources section.

@Connor Murphy The SSA website has a basic life expectancy calculator, but for comprehensive analysis that includes survivor benefits, I d'recommend checking out tools like the Social Security Solutions calculator or MaximizeMySocialSecurity.com. Both factor in spousal and survivor scenarios. Also, many fee-only financial planners use more sophisticated software like Social Security Analyzer that can model different claiming strategies with survivor benefit projections. The key is finding a tool that lets you input both spouses health' status, family longevity, and financial needs to get a realistic picture of the optimal strategy.

@Connor Murphy The Social Security Administration actually has a basic life expectancy calculator on their website, but for more comprehensive analysis that includes survivor benefits, I d'recommend checking out tools like the Maximize My Social Security software by Larry Kotlikoff or the Social Security Timing calculator from Financial Engines. Some fee-only financial planners also use specialized software like Income InSight or Social Security Analyzer that can model different claiming scenarios with survivor benefits included. The key is finding a tool that lets you input both spouses information' and projects the household benefit optimization, not just individual maximization.

@Connor Murphy There are several good calculators that can help with this analysis! The AARP Social Security Calculator and the Social Security Administration s'own retirement estimator are decent starting points, but for more comprehensive analysis that includes survivor benefits, I d'recommend looking into MaximizeMySocialSecurity.com or SocialSecuritySolutions.com. These paid tools usually (around $40-50 factor) in both spouses life' expectancies, health factors, and the long-term survivor benefit implications. They can run thousands of scenarios to find the optimal claiming strategy for your specific situation. Given the potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars at stake over a lifetime, it s'usually money well spent for the peace of mind and optimization.

@Connor Murphy - I ve'found a few good calculators that help with this kind of joint analysis. The AARP Social Security Calculator is pretty comprehensive and lets you input both spouses information.' OpenSocialSecurity.com is another free tool that s'really detailed - it considers both spouses ages,' earnings, and life expectancies to optimize claiming strategies. For something more sophisticated, you might want to check with a fee-only financial planner who uses software like Social Security Analyzer or Income InSight. The key is finding a calculator that doesn t'just look at individual break-even points but considers the household s'total lifetime benefits including that extended survivor benefit period you mentioned.

@Connor Murphy The Social Security Administration actually has a basic life expectancy calculator on their website, but you re'right that it doesn t'factor in survivor benefits well. I ve'found that AARP s'Social Security Calculator and the one from FidSafe are pretty good for couples planning. They let you input both spouses ages' and health factors. Also, many fee-only financial planners use more sophisticated software like Social Security Analyzer Pro that can model different claiming scenarios with survivor benefits included. The key insight Carmen mentioned is spot-on - even if your personal break-even is age 83, if your wife lives to 90+ with that higher survivor benefit, the household comes out way ahead overall.

@Connor Murphy There are a few good calculators that handle the spousal/survivor analysis. The AARP Social Security Calculator is pretty comprehensive and lets you input both spouses info.' Also check out the Social Security Administration s'own retirement estimator, though it s'a bit clunky. For more sophisticated modeling, OpenSocialSecurity.com is free and does a great job with married couple scenarios - it factors in both life expectancies and can show you the optimal claiming strategy for maximizing lifetime household benefits. Just remember that any calculator is only as good as the assumptions you put in, especially around life expectancy and discount rates.

@Connor Murphy - I ve'used the Social Security Administration s'online calculator on their website, but it s'pretty basic. For more comprehensive analysis that includes survivor benefits and joint life expectancies, I d'recommend looking into tools like OpenSocialSecurity.com it (s'free and created by a financial planning software company or) NewRetirement s'Social Security calculator. These tools let you input both spouses information' and will show you various claiming scenarios including the impact on survivor benefits. Some fee-only financial planners also use more sophisticated software like Social Security Analyzer Pro, but you d'need to work with an advisor who has access to those tools. The key is finding something that doesn t'just look at your individual break-even but considers the household optimization across both your lifetimes.

@Connor Murphy - I ve'found a few good calculators that help with this analysis. The AARP Social Security Calculator and the SSA s'own retirement estimator are decent starting points, but for more sophisticated analysis that includes survivor benefits, I really like the MaximizeMySocialSecurity calculator though (it s'a paid service .)OpenSocialSecurity.com is free and does factor in both spouses, but it s'a bit more basic. The key thing these tools help you see is that when you have a significant age gap or income difference between spouses, the survivor benefit optimization often outweighs the personal break-even calculation. Your situation sounds like a textbook case for delaying - higher earner with younger spouse who would benefit from that enhanced survivor benefit for decades.