PA UC appeal hearing for driver termination - can 'unsafe to drive due to fatigue' win my case?

I had a similar situation with my appeal hearing last month and won. Your safety concern is actually a really strong argument. The key is to focus on these points at your hearing:\n\n1. Driving while fatigued is recognized as dangerous and comparable to driving under the influence\n2. You were not refusing work - you were requesting a reasonable accommodation (a few hours rest)\n3. There was no urgent business need for the vehicle to be returned immediately\n4. You communicated clearly with your employer about the situation\n\nBring any text messages or emails showing this communication. Also, PA UC typically sides with safety concerns when properly documented. Make sure to remain calm and stick to the facts during your hearing.

Thank you so much for this breakdown! I do have the text messages saved showing I told him I was too tired to safely drive. Do you think I should bring statistics about drowsy driving accidents too? Or is that overkill?

i had kinda the same thing happen at my job. they told me i had to come in on my day off and i said no and got fired for it. my appeal took FOREVER like 10 weeks before i finally had the hearing and i lost anyway. the hearing ppl sided with my boss even tho he was obvs wrong. good luck hope u have better luck then me!

Your situation isn't really comparable - refusing to come in on a day off is different from a safety-related issue with a company vehicle. The PA UC system treats safety concerns as a separate category, especially when it involves potential liability (like a driver operating a vehicle while impaired by fatigue). The hearing officer will likely focus on whether the employer's demand created a genuine safety risk.

Does anybody know how long these appeal hearings usually last? I have one scheduled for next month and I'm trying to plan my day around it. Also, for the OP - did they send you any paperwork specifically stating \

In my experience, PA UC appeal hearings typically last 30-45 minutes, but can go up to an hour depending on complexity. They're pretty efficient and stick to a structured format. The referee will explain the process at the beginning, then each side presents their case. You'll be sworn in, and both you and your former employer will have a chance to testify and provide evidence. \n\nAnd yes, checking the exact wording on the employer's documentation is crucial. The hearing will focus specifically on the stated reason for termination.

I'm confused why they even care when you brought the car back as long as it was before your shift??? Sounds like your boss was just being a jerk and wanted to flex his authority. I bet there's more to the story - had you guys been having other issues before this happened?

You're right, it did seem weird. We had some tension the week before because I asked for a schedule change (needed Sundays off for family reasons). He wasn't happy about it but seemed to accept it. Maybe this was his way of pushing back? Either way, I don't think that justifies firing someone who was just trying to be safe.

Your safety argument is solid. Make sure to emphasize that you weren't refusing work - you were refusing to drive while impaired by fatigue, which is both dangerous and potentially illegal. PA UC referees are trained to recognize when an employee is fired for prioritizing safety over an employer's unreasonable demand.\n\nBring these documents to your hearing:\n1. Text messages showing your exchange with the boss\n2. A copy of your regular work schedule showing your typical hours\n3. Any company policies about vehicle use or safety protocols\n4. Documentation of your work history showing you were a reliable employee\n\nAlso, be prepared for your employer to paint this as insubordination. Stay calm and keep redirecting back to the safety issue. Remind the referee that you were willing to return the vehicle before your next shift, just not while you were too fatigued to safely operate it.

This is incredibly helpful - thank you! I have most of those documents already. My work history was spotless before this - never late, great customer reviews, etc. I'll definitely emphasize the safety aspect and that I wasn't refusing to return the vehicle, just asking for reasonable rest time before driving.

THIS IS WHY THE PA UC SYSTEM IS BROKEN!!!! A good worker gets fired for being SAFE and then has to jump through hoops to get benefits they deserve. Meanwhile my neighbor hasn't worked in 3 years and somehow keeps collecting!!!! The whole system is rigged against honest workers and now you have to waste time at some stupid hearing. Makes me so angry!!!!!

While I understand your frustration, the appeal process actually helps protect workers. Without it, every claim would be decided solely on the initial review. The appeal system gives claimants a chance to present their full case with evidence. Most transportation-related safety concerns like OP's actually have a good success rate on appeal when properly documented.

have u been trying to call the UC service center to ask them? i spent 3 weeks trying to get somebody on the phone last time i had questions. busy signal every single time i called!!! sooooo frustrating

If you need to speak with someone at PA Unemployment, I'd recommend using Claimyr (claimyr.com). Instead of spending weeks trying to get through, they can connect you with a PA UC agent usually within 1-2 hours. They have a video showing how it works: https://youtu.be/CEPETxZdo9E?si=WL1ZzVZWG3KiHrg2. I was skeptical at first but it saved me so much frustration when I had questions about my appeal hearing. Much better than getting busy signals for weeks on end!

Just wondering - was taking the company car home part of your job description or an official policy? Or was it just something that was allowed informally? That might make a difference in your case.

It was a standard practice for all drivers but not specifically mentioned in our written policy. We were expected to take the cars home between shifts since we often had early morning or late night pickups. In the 2 years I worked there, all drivers did this and it was never an issue until this incident.

I've represented claimants in PA UC appeals for years, and your case has merit. When it comes to transportation jobs, safety arguments carry significant weight. The referee will consider whether your employer's demand was reasonable given the circumstances.\n\nDuring the hearing:\n1. Be specific about how long you had been working (mention the 3:30am end time)\n2. Explain that fatigue impairs driving ability similar to alcohol\n3. Mention that you proposed a reasonable alternative (returning it before your shift)\n4. Note that there was no urgent business reason requiring immediate return\n\nPA UC law recognizes that workers shouldn't be forced to choose between their safety and their job. As long as you can show you were acting reasonably and not willfully violating policy, you have a good chance of winning your appeal.

Thank you for the detailed advice! I'll make sure to emphasize all these points. I'm feeling more confident about the hearing now. Would it help to mention that I've never had any safety incidents or accidents while driving for the company?

my cousin works for PA UC and she says they're really backed up with appeals right now so be prepared to wait a while for your decision even after the hearing happens

This is accurate. Current PA UC appeal decisions are taking 3-4 weeks after the hearing date. Make sure your contact information is up to date in the system so you receive your decision notice promptly.

One more thing to consider: if your employer doesn't attend the hearing (which happens fairly often), your chances of winning increase significantly. The referee will still review the employer's submitted statements, but without them there to cross-examine you or provide additional testimony, your account will carry more weight.\n\nAlso, don't forget that even if you lose the appeal, you can request a Board Review, which is essentially a second appeal. You'd want to do this within 15 days of receiving the referee's decision if it goes against you.

That's good to know! Do you know if the company is required to tell me beforehand whether they'll attend? Also, if I win the appeal, will I get all the back benefits from when I first applied?