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Kelsey Hawkins

Trader Tax Question: Does Marked to Market (MTM) Election Eliminate Long Term Capital Gains on AAPL and SPX Options?

I've been researching the Marked to Market (MTM) election as I'm trying to optimize my trading tax situation for next year. I'm confused about several aspects and hoping someone can clear this up: 1. From what I understand, MTM completely eliminates long term capital gains benefits, including the tax advantages with section 1256 contracts (like SPX options). I've been holding NVDA shares for over 18 months with substantial unrealized gains. If I elect MTM starting in 2025, would I be better off selling these NVDA shares in 2024 before my MTM election takes effect to ensure those gains get taxed at the long-term capital gains rate? 2. I have accounts at both Fidelity and Schwab. If I elect MTM as an individual taxpayer, does it automatically apply to both brokerage accounts? Or can I somehow designate only my Fidelity account for MTM treatment while keeping my Schwab account eligible for long-term capital gains treatment when I sell positions held longer than a year? 3. Would creating an LLC or S-Corp for one of my trading accounts help me separate these tax treatments? I'm trying to maintain the benefits of long-term capital gains for my buy-and-hold positions while using MTM for my more active trading account. Any insights would be greatly appreciated as I'm trying to plan my tax strategy before year-end.

Dylan Fisher

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The MTM election is indeed a significant tax decision for traders. Let me clarify a few things: For your first question - yes, if you elect MTM starting in 2025, any existing positions (including your NVDA shares) would be treated as "sold" on the last day of 2024 for tax purposes, then "repurchased" on the first day of 2025. If you want to ensure long-term capital gains treatment on those NVDA shares, selling in 2024 before your MTM election takes effect would be the way to go. Regarding your second question about multiple brokerage accounts - the MTM election applies to all your trading activities as an individual taxpayer. You can't designate only certain accounts for MTM treatment. Once you make the election, all your securities trading is subject to MTM accounting regardless of which brokerage you use. For your third question about entity structures - creating an LLC or S-Corp could potentially help. You could potentially keep your personal trading separate from your business trading, but this gets complicated. The entity would need its own tax ID and legitimate business purpose.

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Edwards Hugo

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Thanks for the clear explanation. I'm curious though - if I decide to go the LLC route, can I move some of my existing positions into the LLC before making the MTM election? Or would that trigger a taxable event? Also, how strict is the IRS about the "trader status" requirements for MTM? I trade about 3-4 times a week, mostly options.

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Dylan Fisher

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Moving existing positions into an LLC would generally be considered a taxable event, similar to selling them, unless you meet specific requirements for a tax-free transfer. Be careful with this approach. The IRS is quite strict about trader status requirements. Trading 3-4 times weekly might not be sufficient. They look for regular, continuous, and substantial activity - typically hundreds of trades annually, with substantial time devoted to trading (several hours daily) and seeking to profit from short-term market swings rather than dividends or long-term appreciation. The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate you meet these requirements if audited.

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Gianna Scott

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After struggling with similar tax questions for my trading activity, I found an amazing tool that helped clarify everything about MTM elections. Check out https://taxr.ai - they specialize in analyzing trading patterns and tax elections for traders. I uploaded my trading history and got a detailed analysis of whether I qualified for trader status and if MTM would benefit me based on MY specific trading patterns. Their system flagged that I wasn't trading frequently enough to qualify as a trader in the IRS's eyes (apparently my 2-3 trades per week wasn't sufficient), which saved me from making an invalid MTM election that could have caused problems later. They also showed me exactly how much I would save/lose with MTM based on my specific trading patterns and holding periods.

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Alfredo Lugo

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That sounds useful! How exactly does it analyze your trading history? My trades are spread across three different platforms (Robinhood, TD Ameritrade, and Interactive Brokers). Can it handle multiple data sources? I'm worried about making the MTM election and then having the IRS deny my trader status.

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Sydney Torres

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Seems interesting but I'm skeptical. Can this tool really predict how the IRS would view your specific trading pattern for trader status? That seems highly subjective. Does it just use general guidelines or does it have some special insight into how the IRS actually makes these determinations?

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Gianna Scott

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The tool lets you upload transaction histories from all major brokerages - I used it with both Fidelity and TD Ameritrade with no issues. It analyzes trading frequency, holding periods, total volume, and patterns to assess trader status. It then applies the same metrics the IRS looks for, like number of trades, average holding time, and total hours devoted to trading. The assessment isn't just based on general guidelines - it uses specific case precedents and IRS rulings. It examines your pattern of trades against established court cases where trader status was granted or denied. It's not just about trade count - it looks at consistency, purpose of trading, and investment approach. This context really helped me understand why my trading pattern wouldn't qualify despite making what I thought was a decent number of trades.

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Sydney Torres

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I was really skeptical about all these trader tax tools but decided to try https://taxr.ai after reading about it here. I have to admit, I'm impressed. I was about to make the MTM election thinking my 5-10 trades per week qualified me for trader status. The analysis showed I didn't meet the frequency threshold but also pointed out that 65% of my gains would have been negatively affected since they came from positions held longer than a year. The report showed me exactly which trades would benefit from MTM and which wouldn't. For my particular situation, it calculated I would pay about $14,700 more in taxes with MTM than without it! I had no idea the difference would be so substantial. The analysis also suggested specific changes to my trading pattern that would help me qualify as a trader if that's what I wanted to pursue. Definitely worth checking out if you're on the fence about MTM.

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If you're trying to get clarification directly from the IRS about your MTM questions, good luck with that! I tried calling them 8 times over two weeks and couldn't get through. Then I found https://claimyr.com and watched their demo at https://youtu.be/_kiP6q8DX5c. They basically wait on hold with the IRS for you and then call you when an agent is on the line. I was able to speak with an IRS tax specialist who specifically handled trader election questions. They confirmed that MTM elections apply to ALL of your securities as an individual taxpayer across all brokerage accounts. They also explained exactly what documentation I needed to include with my election statement. Saved me hours of frustration and potentially making a costly mistake with my election.

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Caleb Bell

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How does this actually work? Do they just sit on hold for you and then transfer the call? What if the IRS needs to verify your identity and personal info?

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This sounds like BS to me. The IRS barely answers their phones for regular questions - no way they're answering specific questions about trader status and MTM elections. And even if you got through, the frontline IRS reps often give contradictory information. I highly doubt this service actually works for specialized tax questions.

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The service works by keeping your place in the IRS phone queue. When an IRS representative answers, they notify you with a call and connect you directly. You only join when there's an actual human on the line ready to help. When the IRS agent needs to verify your identity, you're already on the call so you can provide all necessary information directly. The service doesn't access any of your personal information - they simply maintain your position in the queue and connect you when an agent is available. All the actual discussion with the IRS is between you and them directly. It's essentially just eliminating the hold time.

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I have to eat my words about the Claimyr service. After my skeptical comment, I decided to try it since I was desperate for answers about my MTM situation before the filing deadline. I was honestly shocked when I got a call back in about 45 minutes saying they had an IRS tax specialist on the line. The agent was knowledgeable about trader tax status and confirmed something crucial - that my existing unrealized gains in long-term positions would be recognized as long-term capital gains at year-end BEFORE the MTM election takes effect for the new year. This was exactly the opposite of what my accountant told me! This saved me from unnecessarily selling positions and creating a tax event this year. The service was actually legitimate and saved me from making a costly mistake.

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Rhett Bowman

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Just wanted to add something important that hasn't been mentioned yet. If you do qualify as a trader and make the MTM election, you'll need to file Form 3115 (Application for Change in Accounting Method) with your tax return for the year the election takes effect. It's not just as simple as checking a box - there's specific paperwork required. Also, remember that MTM treats all gains and losses as ordinary income, which means you lose the preferential tax rates on long-term capital gains, but you also avoid the $3,000 capital loss limitation. This can be hugely beneficial if you have substantial trading losses that would otherwise take years to write off.

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Abigail Patel

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Is Form 3115 complicated to fill out? Do you need a tax professional to help with it? I'm trying to determine if I can handle this election myself or if I need to hire someone.

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Rhett Bowman

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Form 3115 is definitely one of the more complex IRS forms. It's not something I'd recommend filling out yourself unless you have significant tax experience. There are multiple sections, and you need to include a detailed written statement about your change in accounting method. When I did my MTM election, I hired a tax professional who specializes in trader taxes. It cost about $800 for them to prepare the form and the required statement, but it was worth it for the peace of mind. The form requires specific language about Section 475(f), adjustment calculations, and other technical details. If you make errors, it could potentially invalidate your election or cause problems with the IRS later. This is definitely one area where professional help is worth the investment.

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Daniel White

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One thing to consider is that MTM doesn't just eliminate long-term capital gains treatment - it also affects wash sale rules. With MTM, wash sale restrictions don't apply to you anymore, which can be a huge advantage for active traders who frequently trade the same securities. Last year, I had significant losses that were disallowed due to wash sales. If I had MTM status, I could have claimed all those losses immediately. Just something else to factor into your decision.

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Nolan Carter

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That's a great point about wash sales! How difficult was the process of establishing trader status with the IRS? Did you have any issues proving you met the requirements?

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As someone who went through the MTM election process last year, I want to emphasize how important it is to get professional guidance on this decision. The tax implications are complex and can significantly impact your overall tax liability. One critical point that hasn't been fully addressed - if you're considering MTM for 2025, you need to make that election by the due date of your 2024 tax return (including extensions). You can't just decide mid-year in 2025 that you want MTM treatment. Also, regarding your NVDA shares - the previous comment about them being "marked to market" at year-end 2024 is correct. Any unrealized gains on December 31, 2024 would be treated as if you sold and repurchased them on January 1, 2025. This is called the "deemed sale" rule. For your specific situation with substantial NVDA gains, I'd strongly recommend running the numbers both ways - selling in 2024 to lock in long-term capital gains treatment versus keeping them and having them converted to ordinary income under MTM. The difference in tax rates (0%, 15%, or 20% for long-term capital gains versus up to 37% for ordinary income) could be substantial depending on your income level. The entity structure option (LLC/S-Corp) is possible but adds complexity and costs. You'd need to ensure proper business purpose and substance, maintain separate books and records, and the entity would need to qualify for trader status independently.

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Sean Kelly

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This is really helpful information, especially about the election deadline. I'm new to understanding trader tax elections and wasn't aware that the MTM election for 2025 needs to be made by the 2024 tax return due date. One question - you mentioned running the numbers both ways for the NVDA shares. Is there a general rule of thumb for when MTM makes sense versus sticking with capital gains treatment? I'm trying to understand at what point the benefits of avoiding wash sale rules and unlimited loss deductions outweigh losing the preferential long-term capital gains rates. Also, regarding the entity structure complexity you mentioned - what kind of ongoing costs should someone expect if they go the LLC route for separating trading activities?

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