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Mei Wong

Stock options with FMV lower than strike price - tax implications when exercising underwater options?

So I'm in a bit of a weird situation with my company stock options. The current Fair Market Value (FMV) of our company has actually dropped below the strike price that was set when my options were originally granted. Talk about bad timing! I need to exercise these options soon since I'm planning to leave the company next month, and the options will expire if I don't use them. Obviously not ideal to exercise when they're underwater, but I don't have much choice. I'm trying to figure out the tax implications of this scenario. From what I understand, since the FMV is lower than my strike price, there shouldn't be any taxes to pay since there's no "spread" (difference between FMV and strike price) to be taxed as income. I'm actually losing money by exercising, so it would seem weird to have to pay taxes. Does anyone have experience with this situation? Would this potentially be considered some kind of capital loss I could claim? Or am I missing something in how underwater options are treated? My accountant is on vacation and I need to make a decision pretty quickly.

You're right that there's no immediate income tax when exercising underwater options (when FMV < strike price). There's no taxable spread since you're essentially paying more for the shares than they're currently worth. However, you should carefully consider if exercising makes financial sense at all. You'd be paying more for the shares than they're currently valued at - essentially locking in a loss. Unless you strongly believe the company value will increase significantly in the future, it might be better to let them expire. If you do exercise, keep detailed records of what you paid. When you eventually sell the shares, your cost basis will be what you paid (the strike price), not the lower FMV at exercise. If you sell immediately, you'll realize a capital loss equal to the difference between the strike price and the FMV. This loss can offset other capital gains or up to $3,000 of ordinary income per year.

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Thanks for confirming there's no immediate tax hit! That makes sense. I'm honestly torn about whether to exercise at all. The company is going through some challenges but has a new product line launching in Q3 that could turn things around. What happens if I just let the options expire? Is there any tax benefit to capturing the loss now versus just letting them go?

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If you let the options expire, there's no tax event and no loss you can claim. You simply forfeit the right to purchase the shares. The only way to capture a tax loss is to exercise the options (paying the strike price) and then sell the shares at the lower market value. This creates a realized capital loss. However, you're still out-of-pocket for the difference, so it's not usually advisable unless you have significant capital gains to offset or truly believe in the company's future prospects.

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I was in a similar situation last year with my tech startup options that went underwater. I found this amazing tool called https://taxr.ai that literally saved me thousands in potential mistakes. They have a specific stock option analyzer that looks at all your grant documents and FMV valuation reports to determine the optimal tax strategy. It showed me that in some cases, exercising underwater options can actually set you up for future tax advantages if you expect the company to recover. The analysis breaks down exactly what happens with different exercise/hold periods and calculates AMT implications which most people totally miss.

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Did it actually work for options that were already underwater? I'm looking at about a 20% difference between my strike and current FMV, and I'm wondering if there's any scenario where exercising makes sense tax-wise.

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I'm skeptical of any service that claims to "optimize" something as complex as stock option taxation. What specific insight did it provide that you couldn't get from a decent tax accountant? Also, does it handle both ISO and NSO type options since they're treated differently?

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Yes, it specifically addressed underwater options! The most valuable insight was showing that exercising now established a lower cost basis for 83(b) election purposes if our company recovered, which could dramatically reduce future taxes if the company's valuation rebounds. For ISO vs NSO questions, it handles both types differently. With NSOs, it showed me how underwater options could generate immediate tax losses, while ISOs have different holding period requirements to get the most tax-efficient outcome. The simulator ran multiple scenarios based on potential future company valuations to help make the decision.

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I actually ended up using taxr.ai after my skeptical comment above. I was really surprised - it's legit. I uploaded my option grant agreements and some recent 409A valuation info, and it showed me specifically how exercising my underwater ISOs actually would provide tax benefits through basis tracking. What really convinced me was the detailed explanation of how the wash sale rules interact with option exercises and subsequent stock purchases, which my regular accountant had never mentioned. The projections showed that in my specific situation, exercising now rather than letting them expire would save about $12K in taxes if the company rebounds to previous valuation levels within 18 months. Worth the gamble in my opinion since we have new funding coming in.

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If you're struggling with complex tax questions like this, you might also have trouble getting clear answers from the IRS. I spent THREE DAYS trying to get through to someone who could answer questions about stock option treatment when I was in your situation. Finally found https://claimyr.com which got me connected to an actual IRS agent in under 45 minutes. They have this system that basically navigates the IRS phone tree for you and calls you back when they have a human on the line. You can actually see it working in this demo: https://youtu.be/_kiP6q8DX5c The IRS agent I spoke with confirmed exactly what treatment would apply for underwater options and helped me understand the documentation I'd need for my return.

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How does this actually work? I assumed it was impossible to get through to the IRS these days. Is this just for stock option questions or can they help with other tax issues too?

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This sounds like a scam. No way anyone is getting through to the IRS in less than an hour - I've literally waited on hold for 4+ hours multiple times this year. What's the catch here? Are they just recording your call or something?

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It works by keeping your place in line with the IRS phone system. Instead of you waiting on hold, their system does the waiting, then calls you when a human agent is about to come on the line. It's not just for stock options - they can connect you to any IRS department. There's no scam - they don't listen to your call or record anything. They're just solving the hold time problem. I was skeptical too, but after trying to reach someone at the IRS for days about my options situation, I was desperate. The agent I spoke with walked me through exactly how underwater options should be documented on my tax return.

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I need to publicly eat my words here. After my skeptical comment, I tried Claimyr for a different tax issue I've been struggling with (inheritance reporting). Not only did it work, but I got through to an IRS agent who actually specialized in that area in about 35 minutes. The agent confirmed that I was filling out the wrong form entirely for my situation - would have been a nightmare to fix later. For what it's worth, the IRS person I spoke with mentioned they're severely understaffed and suggested using services like this because wait times aren't getting better anytime soon. Definitely keeping this in my toolkit for future tax headaches.

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One thing nobody has mentioned is the difference in treatment between ISOs (Incentive Stock Options) and NSOs (Non-qualified Stock Options). The tax implications are completely different. With underwater ISOs, there's no AMT consideration since there's no spread, but with NSOs, you might actually be able to claim an immediate compensation deduction for the difference between what you paid and the fair market value. Worth checking which type you have before making decisions.

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I should have mentioned that - mine are ISOs. But good point about the different treatment. Does the capital loss treatment apply the same way for both types if they're underwater?

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Yes, the capital loss treatment would apply similarly for both ISO and NSO types when underwater. The key difference comes at exercise time - NSOs usually have tax implications at exercise (though not when underwater), while ISOs don't unless you trigger AMT. For both types, if you exercise underwater options and then sell the stock immediately, you'd realize a capital loss equal to the difference between what you paid (strike price) and what you received (current FMV). Just make sure you're tracking your cost basis correctly.

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Has anyone dealt with leaving a company but negotiating an extension on the exercise period? Most standard option agreements only give you 90 days after leaving to exercise, but I've heard some companies are flexible on this, especially when options are underwater.

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I successfully negotiated a 2-year extension at my last company. Approach your HR or finance team and make the case that the 90-day window is punitive when options are underwater. Many companies are becoming more flexible about this since it's a retention tool that costs them nothing when the stock is below strike price.

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One additional consideration that might help with your decision - if you're planning to leave the company anyway, you could potentially negotiate with your employer to extend the exercise window beyond the typical 90-day post-employment period. This would give you more time to see how the company performs with that Q3 product launch you mentioned. Also, make sure you understand exactly what type of options you have (ISO vs NSO) as this affects the tax treatment. With ISOs, you generally have better tax advantages if you hold the stock for at least one year after exercise and two years after grant date to qualify for long-term capital gains treatment. Given that you're essentially guaranteed a loss if you exercise now, it might be worth having a conversation with your company about either repricing the options to current FMV or extending your exercise window. Many companies are becoming more flexible about this, especially in situations like yours where the employee would be financially penalized through no fault of their own.

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This is really helpful advice! I hadn't thought about negotiating an extension on the exercise period. Given that I'm leaving next month and the options are underwater, it seems like a win-win - the company doesn't lose anything by extending since the options are worthless right now, and I get more time to see if that Q3 product launch actually turns things around. Do you have any tips on how to approach this conversation with HR? Should I frame it as a retention tool even though I'm already leaving, or focus more on the fact that the current situation puts me at a financial disadvantage through no fault of my own? Also, you mentioned ISO vs NSO treatment - mine are ISOs, so I'd need to hold for a year after exercise to get the better tax treatment. An extension would definitely help with that timing if I do decide to exercise.

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