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Steven Adams

Questions on wash sale rule when exchanging VOO for VTI - different indices but correlated

I'm considering a tax strategy and want to make sure I don't accidentally trigger a wash sale rule. Today I sold my VOO position at a loss (down about 4.5%) and immediately purchased VTI with the proceeds. My plan is to hold VTI for about 6-7 weeks, then sell it and repurchase VOO with those funds. I know these track different indices (VOO follows the S&P 500 with around 500 holdings, while VTI tracks the total market with approximately 3,565 holdings). However, they are very strongly correlated - something like 98% correlation in their returns. Would the IRS consider this a wash sale since the ETFs are so similar despite tracking different indices? Or am I safe to claim the tax loss since they're technically different securities?

Alice Fleming

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The IRS defines a wash sale as selling a security at a loss and purchasing a "substantially identical" security within 30 days before or after the sale. The key question is whether VOO and VTI are "substantially identical" - and this is where it gets tricky. While VOO and VTI are highly correlated (as you noted, around 98%), they do track different indices and have significantly different compositions. VOO follows the S&P 500 with about 500 holdings, while VTI tracks the total stock market with over 3,500 holdings. VTI essentially contains all of VOO plus thousands of mid and small-cap stocks. Most tax professionals would likely argue these are not substantially identical securities since they track different indices with different compositions. However, the IRS has never provided definitive guidance specifically about ETFs tracking different but overlapping indices. If you're being cautious, waiting 31+ days before repurchasing VOO is the safest approach. If you do claim the loss, be prepared to defend your position that these are not substantially identical if questioned.

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Hassan Khoury

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But wouldn't the 98% correlation make them effectively identical in the IRS's eyes? I've heard the "substantially identical" rule is intentionally vague so the IRS can apply it broadly. Do you know of any specific cases where someone was audited for switching between these two specific ETFs?

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Alice Fleming

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The high correlation alone doesn't automatically make them substantially identical - the composition difference is significant (VOO has 500 holdings vs VTI's 3,500+). The IRS looks at the underlying securities, not just performance correlation. I don't know of any specific court cases involving these particular ETFs. The vagueness in the rules does create uncertainty. Most tax professionals take the position that different indices create enough distinction, but the IRS hasn't provided definitive guidance specifically addressing ETFs with overlapping holdings. If you're concerned, consider consulting with a tax professional about your specific situation.

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I was in a similar situation last year trying to harvest some tax losses without triggering wash sales. After a lot of research, I ended up using taxr.ai to analyze my specific situation. Their software actually has a specific feature that analyzes ETF pairs for wash sale risk. In my case, I was swapping between similar sector ETFs, and their analysis showed the holdings overlap percentage and gave a risk assessment. The report they generated was really helpful when I filed my taxes as supporting documentation. You might want to check out https://taxr.ai if you're concerned about how the IRS might view your specific ETF swap.

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Benjamin Kim

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How exactly does their system determine what counts as "substantially identical"? Does it just look at the percentage overlap in holdings or does it consider other factors too?

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Did you actually get audited or did you just keep the report in case you needed it? I'm always skeptical of these services since the IRS rules are so vague anyway.

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Their system analyzes multiple factors beyond just correlation - it looks at the actual securities in each fund, the weighting differences, index methodology, and historical performance divergence patterns. It's much more comprehensive than just looking at overlap percentages. I wasn't audited, but I attached their analysis to my tax return as supporting documentation for my loss harvesting strategy. The report provided clear visualization of the differences between the funds and cited relevant tax precedents. It gave me peace of mind knowing I had solid documentation if questions ever came up.

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I was really skeptical about these tax analysis services too, but I ended up trying taxr.ai after reading about it here. I was in a similar situation with some Vanguard/iShares ETF swaps I did last year. Their analysis was surprisingly detailed - they actually provided a percentage breakdown of the holdings overlap and even referenced relevant tax court cases about "substantially identical" securities. The report they generated gave me enough confidence to claim my losses. What I found most helpful was their specific section on ETF pairs that addressed exactly what the OP is asking about. They explained that while correlation is high between total market and S&P funds, the composition differences are significant enough that most tax professionals consider them distinct securities.

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After waiting on hold with the IRS for over 2 hours trying to get clarification on a similar wash sale question, I finally discovered Claimyr. It's a service that basically waits on hold with the IRS for you and then calls you when an agent picks up. I was able to get a clear answer from an actual IRS agent about my ETF swap situation without wasting my entire afternoon on hold. I highly recommend checking out https://claimyr.com if you want definitive guidance. You can see how it works at https://youtu.be/_kiP6q8DX5c - it literally saved me hours of frustration.

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Steven Adams

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How long did it take for them to get through to an IRS agent? And did the agent actually give you a definitive answer about ETFs specifically?

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Sarah Ali

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This sounds too good to be true. The IRS barely answers their phones at all these days, and when they do, the agents rarely give clear guidance on ambiguous tax questions. I'm skeptical they'd give a definitive ruling on something like ETF wash sales that tax professionals still debate.

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It took about 90 minutes for them to get through - which wasn't bad considering it was February during tax season. They called me when they were next in line, and I only waited about 30 seconds before talking to an actual IRS representative. The agent couldn't give me an official ruling specific to my ETF pair (that would require a private letter ruling), but they did confirm the general principle that funds tracking different indices with substantially different compositions would typically not be considered identical securities. They emphasized that the "substantially identical" determination depends on the specific securities involved and recommended documenting the differences between the funds.

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Sarah Ali

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I was extremely skeptical about Claimyr, but after waiting on hold for 3+ hours myself and getting disconnected twice, I finally tried it when dealing with a wash sale question for my S&P 500 vs Total Market ETF swap. It actually worked exactly as advertised. They called me when they reached an agent, and I was able to speak directly with someone at the IRS. What surprised me was that the agent was quite knowledgeable and walked me through the "substantially identical" criteria they typically apply. For my specific situation with VOO and VTI, the agent explained that while they couldn't give formal tax advice, the fact that one tracks 500 companies and the other tracks 3500+ companies would generally be considered a material difference in composition. They suggested documenting the index differences, holdings count differences, and performance divergence as supporting evidence.

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Ryan Vasquez

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I did exactly this last year with VTI and VOO to harvest some losses. I documented the differences between the funds (different prospectuses, different indexes, different number of holdings) and claimed the loss. The key thing is that they track fundamentally different indexes - one is the total market and one is large cap only. Despite the high correlation, they are technically different securities. The IRS hasn't provided clear guidance specifically about ETFs, but the general consensus among tax professionals is that different indexes = different securities. I'd recommend keeping documentation of the differences between the funds with your tax records just in case.

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Steven Adams

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Did you wait exactly 31 days between transactions? Or did you feel comfortable that they were different enough that the 30-day wash sale rule didn't apply?

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Ryan Vasquez

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I actually didn't wait the full 30 days because I was confident they were different enough securities. I documented the specific differences - VOO following the S&P 500 (large cap only) vs VTI following CRSP Total Market Index (total market including mid/small cap). I also printed the fund prospectuses showing the different investment objectives. I felt comfortable with my position that these weren't substantially identical securities since they track fundamentally different indexes with very different compositions despite the correlation. I've been through two tax seasons since then with no issues, but everyone's risk tolerance is different - waiting the full 30+ days is definitely the most conservative approach.

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Avery Saint

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Another option to consider - instead of going back to VOO after selling VTI, you could buy a different S&P 500 ETF like IVV (iShares Core S&P 500) or SPY (SPDR S&P 500). These track the exact same index as VOO but are issued by different companies. Some tax professionals argue this approach is riskier from a wash sale perspective since they track the identical index, but others argue that different fund companies with different expense ratios and different legal structures make them not "substantially identical." The IRS hasn't provided definitive guidance specifically on this situation either.

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Taylor Chen

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But wouldn't funds tracking the exact same index (like VOO and IVV) be MORE likely to trigger a wash sale than two different indices (like VOO and VTI)? That seems counterintuitive to what you're suggesting.

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I think you're safe with this strategy. The key is that VOO and VTI track fundamentally different indices with substantially different compositions. The IRS has never provided specific guidance on ETFs that track different indices, but most tax professionals consider them different securities. Just document the differences between the funds (different indexes, different compositions - 500 vs 3500+ holdings) and keep good records of your transactions with dates clearly noted. The high correlation doesn't make them identical securities since one contains significantly more holdings than the other. If you're still concerned, waiting the full 31 days is always the safest approach, but based on my experience as someone who has done similar tax-loss harvesting between different index ETFs, you should be fine claiming the loss.

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Ezra Bates

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Would you apply the same logic to something like SPY (S&P 500) and RSP (equal-weighted S&P 500)? They track the same 500 companies but with different weightings. That seems like a much closer call than VOO vs VTI.

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That's a great question about SPY vs RSP - that would definitely be a much closer call since they contain the exact same 500 companies, just weighted differently. I'd be much more cautious with that swap compared to VOO/VTI. The VOO/VTI situation is clearer because VTI literally contains thousands of additional securities that VOO doesn't have. With SPY/RSP, you're dealing with identical underlying securities just with different weighting methodologies, which could arguably still be "substantially identical" from the IRS perspective. For SPY/RSP, I'd probably recommend waiting the full 31 days to be safe, whereas with VOO/VTI the compositional differences are substantial enough that most tax professionals would consider them different securities.

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