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Is line 8A on Schedule SE supposed to include combined or individual wages when filing jointly with spouse?

Hey tax folks! I'm pretty confused about something on Schedule SE and the IRS instructions aren't helping much. My husband and I both work full-time jobs plus we each have some side businesses we run on evenings/weekends. We file our taxes jointly. Here's my issue - between my husband and I, our combined W-2 wages from our main jobs exceed $160,000, but individually neither of us makes more than $125,000 from our W-2 jobs. When filling out Schedule SE for our self-employment income from our side businesses, I'm not sure what to put on line 8A. Does line 8A on Schedule SE need to include our combined W-2 Social Security wages since we file jointly? Or do we need to use just our individual W-2 wages on our individual Schedule SE forms? This makes a big difference for our self-employment tax calculations and the instructions are super vague. Anyone dealt with this before?

Anyone know if this applies the same way for Schedule SE 2023? My husband and I are in similar situation but neither of us hit the $160,200 limit individually although together we go over. Am I understanding right that we'll both owe the full 12.4% SS tax on our side hustle income? That seems so unfair when couples who have one high earner wouldn't pay this!

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Yes, this applies the same way for tax year 2023. Each of you will complete separate Schedule SE forms using only your individual W-2 wages on line 8A. Since neither of you individually reaches the $160,200 wage base limit, you'll both pay the full 12.4% Social Security portion on your self-employment income. It may seem unfair, but that's how the system works - Social Security taxes are tied to individuals, not couples. If all the income was earned by one spouse, they'd hit the limit and avoid additional SS tax. But when split between two people, each person's "counter" toward the limit is separate.

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Thanks for confirming! Still feels unfair but at least now I know what to expect. Guess this is the so-called "marriage penalty" people talk about. Might need to adjust our withholding or estimated payments to account for this extra SE tax. Ugh, taxes are so complicated!

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I've been a tax preparer for 15 years and this is one of the most common misconceptions I see with married couples who both have self-employment income. The key thing to remember is that Schedule SE is NOT affected by your filing status - it's always calculated individually. Even though you file a joint return, Social Security benefits are earned individually, so the taxes that fund them are also calculated individually. Each spouse needs their own Schedule SE, and line 8A should only include that person's individual W-2 wages, never the combined amount. One tip: if you're doing this yourself, make sure you're using the correct wage base limit for the tax year you're filing. It increases almost every year due to inflation adjustments. Also, don't forget to claim the deduction for the employer portion of self-employment tax on your joint return - that's one place where filing jointly actually helps you!

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Is renting below market rate to family members affecting my tax filing? Who is right about IRS rules?

So I'm in a bit of a weird tax situation and getting conflicting advice from two different CPAs. We own a second house that we're renting to my wife's parents for about $850 per month, but similar homes in the area go for around $2000. Our previous accountant (who recently retired) always told us NOT to claim it as a rental property on our taxes. His reasoning was that because we're charging significantly below fair market rent, we should just report the $850/month as additional income but not claim it as a rental property with all the associated deductions. Our new accountant is telling us the complete opposite! When we mentioned the previous advice about the fair market rent issue, he actually laughed and said he'd never heard of such a rule. He's pushing us to claim it as a rental so we can take advantage of more deductions and get a bigger tax return. I don't care about maximizing returns - I just want to file correctly and not trigger any IRS issues. Did something change with tax law regarding below-market rentals to family members? Is there an actual IRS rule about this that I can reference when talking to our new accountant? It feels awkward to challenge him since he seemed so confident, but we're definitely not using this firm again next year regardless. Any guidance would be appreciated!

My husband and I went through something similar with his parents. Make sure your accountant checks with you before filing! Our new accountant filed it as a rental property without telling us (after we had discussed it wasn't) and we ended up having to file an amended return. One option might be to increase the rent to meet the 80% threshold if your in-laws can afford it, then gift some money back to them separately if you want to effectively subsidize their housing. But talk to a qualified tax professional about this approach first!

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Wouldn't gifting money back create other tax issues? I thought there were gift tax implications if you give more than a certain amount.

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I'm dealing with a similar situation where I'm renting to my brother at below market rate. After reading through all these responses, it sounds like the key issue is whether you're charging at least 80% of fair market rent. At $850 vs $2000 market rate, you're only at about 42%, so you'd definitely fall under the personal use/hobby loss rules. This means you can report the rental income but your deductions would be limited to that income amount - you couldn't create a loss to offset other income. The advice about potentially raising the rent to meet the 80% threshold is interesting, but make sure any gifting arrangement is done properly to avoid gift tax issues. The annual gift tax exclusion for 2024 is $18,000 per recipient, so you'd need to stay within those limits. Your previous accountant's conservative approach was probably the safest way to handle it. Better to be cautious with the IRS than risk an audit over aggressive deductions on a family rental situation.

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This is really helpful context! I'm new to understanding these tax rules but it makes sense that the IRS would have guidelines to prevent people from creating artificial losses through family arrangements. One thing I'm curious about - if someone is in this situation and decides to raise the rent to meet that 80% threshold, how do they determine what "fair market rent" actually is? Do you need a formal appraisal, or can you use comparable rentals in the area? I imagine the IRS would want some documentation to back up that fair market value calculation. Also, the point about gift tax limits is important. At $18,000 per person annually, a married couple could theoretically gift $36,000 total to the in-laws to help offset higher rent payments while staying within the exclusion limits, right?

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Great questions! For determining fair market rent, the IRS doesn't require a formal appraisal, but you do need reasonable documentation. You can use comparable rentals in your area - websites like Zillow, Apartments.com, or local rental listings work well. Some people also get a letter from a local real estate agent familiar with rental markets. The key is having documentation that shows you made a good faith effort to determine actual market rates. You're absolutely right about the gift tax exclusion! For 2024, it's $18,000 per recipient per giver, so a married couple could gift up to $36,000 annually to the in-laws ($18,000 each from husband and wife) without any gift tax implications. If the in-laws are also married, you could technically gift $18,000 to each spouse, potentially allowing up to $72,000 in total gifts per year from a married couple to a married couple while staying within exclusion limits. Just make sure to keep the rental arrangement and any gifts completely separate - charge market rate rent through normal rental processes, and handle any gifts as separate family transactions with proper documentation.

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Can my LLC still deduct expenses after reimbursing members who paid from personal accounts?

I'm part of a 2-member LLC that we set up with pass-through taxation. We ran into a problem where our EIN was taking forever to process, so my partner and I ended up paying for a bunch of startup expenses from our personal accounts (about $4,500 combined). Here's what I'm confused about: If we reimburse ourselves for these business expenses we paid personally, can the LLC still claim these as tax deductions? I was told that if we had originally paid with a business credit card, they would definitely be tax deductible, but since we paid personally and then got reimbursed, maybe not? Am I understanding this correctly? If this is true, would another option be to formally document these as loans to the company for startup costs? Would the principal payments back to us on these "loans" be non-taxable, while still allowing the LLC to deduct the actual expenses on our business taxes? Any advice would be super helpful! Our accountant is out on vacation and I'm trying to get our books organized before year-end. Thanks!

Just to add onto what others have said - make sure you're keeping meticulous records. For my LLC, I created a simple spreadsheet that tracked: - Date of purchase - Vendor/merchant - Amount - Business purpose - Who paid (me or my partner) - Date of reimbursement This helped tremendously when our tax time came around. Our accountant said the key is being able to show the clear business purpose for each expense. As long as they're legitimate business expenses and properly documented, the LLC can deduct them regardless of whether they were initially paid from personal funds.

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Would you be willing to share a template of that spreadsheet? I'm in a similar situation with my partner and we've been tracking things haphazardly.

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I just went through this exact scenario with my consulting LLC! The good news is that proper expense reimbursements are totally legitimate and the LLC can still deduct them. Here's what worked for me: 1. Create detailed expense reports for each reimbursement showing the business purpose, date, amount, and vendor 2. Keep all original receipts 3. Have the LLC formally approve and pay the reimbursements (don't just transfer money informally) 4. Record everything properly in your books - the LLC records the expense and the reimbursement as separate transactions The key distinction is that these are reimbursements for legitimate business expenses, not distributions or loans. As long as the expenses would have been deductible if paid directly by the LLC, they remain deductible when reimbursed. One thing to watch out for - make sure you're not double-deducting. The LLC takes the deduction, not you personally. And get those reimbursements processed before year-end if you want the deductions this tax year! Your accountant should be able to confirm all this when they're back, but you're definitely on the right track with your thinking.

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Contractor Income Not Reported to IRS - Will They Know if I Don't Include $40k from Nonprofit on My Taxes?

I did contract work for a nonprofit organization last year and made around $52k from them. The weird thing is, they told me they haven't filed a 1099 with the IRS for my work and apparently have no plans to do so. I definitely understand I'm supposed to report all my income regardless, and I'm planning to do that. But I'm really curious... what would actually happen if I decided not to report this income? Since there's no 1099 filed, would the IRS even know about this money? Would there be any way for them to catch this? Just to be clear, I WILL be reporting it on my taxes. This is purely a hypothetical question because I'm curious about how the system works.

If the nonprofit isn't issuing 1099s, they're probably breaking the law themselves. Any business that pays a contractor $600+ in a year is required to file a 1099-NEC. Maybe you should let them know they could get in trouble too? This seems super sketchy for a nonprofit especially.

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Exactly this. The nonprofit is risking their tax-exempt status by not following proper tax procedures. They have to file 1099s for contractors - it's not optional. OP should definitely report their income regardless, but the organization needs to know they're risking an audit and potentially major issues with their nonprofit status.

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I'm a tax preparer and I see this situation fairly often. You're absolutely right to report the income regardless of whether you receive a 1099 - that's the law and it's the smart thing to do. Here's what many people don't realize: the IRS has increasingly sophisticated data matching systems. Even without a 1099, they can cross-reference your reported income with things like business expense deductions, lifestyle indicators, and yes, banking activity during audits. They also have agreements with state agencies that might have records of your work. The nonprofit telling you they "have no plans" to file a 1099 is concerning - they're legally required to issue one for payments over $600 to contractors. This could indicate poor record-keeping that might actually make them MORE likely to get audited, not less. My advice: Report the income, keep excellent records of all payments received (bank statements, invoices, contracts), and document any business expenses you can legitimately deduct. If you're audited, having organized records will make the process much smoother. The peace of mind from doing things correctly is worth way more than any short-term tax savings from underreporting.

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How screwed am I? Tax preparer forgot to include one of my W-2s when filing.

I'm freaking out right now. I just realized that my tax preparer at Jackson Hewitt completely missed one of my W-2s when filing my taxes last month. I had 3 different jobs in 2024 (retail, warehouse, and office admin) and I swear I gave them all my documents, but somehow they only included 2 W-2s in my final return. The missing W-2 is for about $14,500 in income with roughly $2,200 in federal withholding. I already received my refund of $1,890 two weeks ago and spent some of it on car repairs. Now I'm worried the IRS is going to come after me for fraud or something. Do I need to file an amended return? Will I have to pay back my whole refund plus penalties? I'm terrified because I can't afford a big tax bill right now. Has anyone dealt with this before? I'm worried this is going to follow me for years.

Just went through something similar and want to make sure you know that amended returns are MUCH slower to process. Mine took almost 16 weeks! The IRS says to allow up to 20 weeks for amended returns vs. the normal 21 days for regular returns. So if you're expecting additional refund money, don't count on seeing it anytime soon.

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That's true for paper amendments but the IRS recently started accepting electronic 1040-X filings through some tax software. Much faster processing that way but not all prep companies offer it yet.

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I didn't know they were accepting electronic amendments now! That would have saved me so much hassle. I had to mail mine in and then had zero visibility into the processing status for months. The "Where's My Amended Return" tool kept showing "not received" for like 8 weeks after I mailed it.

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Don't beat yourself up too much about this - it's actually the tax preparer's responsibility to ensure all your documents are included. Since you mentioned you gave them all your paperwork, this is on Jackson Hewitt, not you. The silver lining is that with $2,200 in federal withholding on that missing W-2, you'll likely owe very little additional tax, if any. In fact, depending on your tax bracket, you might even get a bigger refund once you file the amendment! File Form 1040-X as soon as possible to get ahead of any IRS notices. And definitely contact Jackson Hewitt about covering any fees or penalties since this was their error. Most reputable tax prep companies will make it right when they mess up. Keep all your documentation showing you provided complete paperwork to them.

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