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This is a really troubling situation that unfortunately happens more often than people realize, especially with smaller companies that don't have dedicated payroll departments. Your sister and her coworkers are dealing with what's essentially employer negligence in payroll tax compliance. First thing - they need to act fast. The company is legally obligated to withhold federal taxes, and their failure to do so doesn't absolve employees of their tax liability, but it does give them grounds for penalty relief from the IRS. Here's what I'd recommend: 1. **Document everything immediately** - Get copies of all paystubs, W-4 forms, and any communication about the direct deposit switch 2. **File taxes on time** - Even if they can't pay, filing prevents failure-to-file penalties which are much worse 3. **Contact the IRS** - Set up payment plans and request penalty abatement due to "reasonable cause" (employer error). The IRS is often willing to waive penalties when underpayment wasn't the taxpayer's fault 4. **Approach the employer as a group** - There's strength in numbers, and this affects multiple people. The company may be willing to provide assistance or bonuses to help with the unexpected tax burden 5. **Report to appropriate agencies** - File complaints with both the IRS and Department of Labor about the employer's failure to comply with withholding requirements The company could face serious penalties for this, so they have strong incentive to work with the employees to resolve it. Don't let them dismiss this as "just a mistake" - people's financial wellbeing is at stake here.
This is really helpful advice! I'm curious though - when you say the IRS is "often willing" to waive penalties for employer error, how strong is that case actually? Like what percentage of people in this situation actually get penalty relief? I'm asking because my cousin went through something similar last year and the IRS still hit him with penalties even though it wasn't his fault. Is there specific language or forms they should use when requesting the abatement to make it more likely to succeed?
Great question! The success rate for penalty abatement due to "reasonable cause" varies, but employer withholding errors are actually one of the stronger cases you can make. The key is in how you present it to the IRS. Your cousin might have had better luck if he used Form 843 (Claim for Refund and Request for Abatement) and specifically cited "reasonable cause" under IRC Section 6664(c). The magic words are demonstrating that the underpayment occurred "despite the exercise of ordinary business care and prudence." When the employer fails to withhold taxes that should have been withheld, and you have documentation proving this (like paystubs showing zero withholding when there should have been withholding), that's textbook reasonable cause. Include a detailed explanation of what happened, copies of paystubs, and any correspondence with the employer about the issue. The IRS also has a "First Time Penalty Abatement" policy that can work even if reasonable cause doesn't - if someone has been compliant for the previous 3 years, they'll often waive penalties for first-time issues regardless of the cause. Your cousin might want to try requesting abatement again with better documentation if he hasn't already.
This is a really serious situation that your sister and her coworkers need to address immediately. Unfortunately, what happened to them is not legal - employers are absolutely required by federal law to withhold income taxes, Social Security, and Medicare taxes from employee paychecks. The fact that this happened to multiple employees when they switched to direct deposit suggests either a major payroll system error or negligence on the company's part. Either way, the company is liable for failing to meet their legal withholding obligations. Here's what they should do right now: **Immediate steps:** - Gather all paystubs and direct deposit records to document the lack of withholding - File their tax returns on time even if they can't pay - this prevents additional failure-to-file penalties - Contact the IRS to set up payment plans (they have reasonable monthly options) **Dealing with the employer:** - Approach management as a unified group - there's power in numbers here - Demand immediate correction of the withholding going forward - Ask if the company will provide financial assistance (bonuses, etc.) to help with the unexpected tax burden - Get everything in writing - no verbal promises **Penalty relief:** They should absolutely request penalty abatement from the IRS based on "reasonable cause" since this was employer error, not their fault. The IRS often waives penalties when underpayment resulted from circumstances beyond the taxpayer's control. They should also consider reporting this to the Department of Labor and filing a complaint with the IRS about the company's failure to comply with employment tax laws. The company could face significant penalties, which gives them strong incentive to help resolve this situation. Don't let the company brush this off as a minor mistake - people are facing serious financial hardship because of their failure to follow federal tax law.
This is excellent comprehensive advice! I just want to emphasize how important the "unified group" approach is here. When multiple employees present a united front, it's much harder for the company to dismiss or minimize the issue. One additional point - they should also request copies of their W-4 forms from HR to verify that they properly elected tax withholding. If the W-4s show they requested withholding but the company failed to implement it, that's even stronger evidence for their penalty abatement requests with the IRS. Also, if anyone is struggling financially because of this situation, they might qualify for Currently Not Collectible status with the IRS while they get back on their feet. The IRS can temporarily suspend collection activities if paying the tax would cause financial hardship. Just another option to explore alongside the payment plans.
This is such a comprehensive discussion on S-Corp partnership accounting! As someone who's been managing these complexities for several years, I'd like to add a few practical tips that have helped me streamline the process. First, I highly recommend creating a quarterly reconciliation schedule that tracks your K-1 income estimates versus actual distributions received. Most partnerships provide quarterly estimates, and tracking these helps you anticipate year-end adjustments and plan for any tax distributions needed. Second, don't overlook the importance of understanding your partnership's distribution policy. Some partnerships distribute based on current year income, while others may distribute prior year earnings or even return capital. Understanding this policy helps you predict cash flow and avoid basis surprises. Finally, for QBO users, I suggest creating a dedicated class or location code for all partnership-related transactions. This makes it much easier to pull reports showing all activity related to your LLC investments when it's time to prepare your 1120S or when your CPA needs supporting documentation. One last note - if your S-Corp has significant partnership investments, consider whether quarterly estimated tax payments are necessary. The timing differences between K-1 income and distributions can create cash flow challenges when personal tax bills come due, especially if the partnership retains most of its earnings.
This is exactly the kind of systematic approach I wish I had implemented from day one! Your quarterly reconciliation schedule idea is brilliant - I've been scrambling at year-end trying to figure out where all the discrepancies came from. Quick question about the class/location tracking in QBO - do you use this for both the income recognition AND the distribution transactions? I'm wondering if that would help me generate cleaner reports for my CPA instead of having to manually pull together all the partnership-related entries. Also, your point about quarterly estimated taxes is spot on. Last year I got hit with underpayment penalties because I didn't account for the K-1 income that wasn't distributed. Do you have a rule of thumb for calculating what percentage of undistributed K-1 income to set aside for taxes? I'm trying to avoid that cash crunch this year.
Based on my experience with similar S-Corp/partnership structures, here's a systematic approach that's worked well for me: For your specific example ($45K K-1 income vs $35K distributions), the journal entry in QBO would be: Debit: Investment in LLC Partnership $45,000 Credit: Partnership Income $45,000 Then separately record the distribution: Debit: Cash $35,000 Credit: Investment in LLC Partnership $35,000 This leaves you with a $10,000 increase in your investment account representing undistributed earnings, and $45,000 of income flowing to your 1120S regardless of the cash received. One critical point - make sure you're tracking your tax basis separately from your book basis, especially if the partnership has debt that affects your basis calculation. The K-1 should show your share of partnership liabilities which increases your basis for tax purposes but doesn't necessarily affect your QBO investment account. Also, consider setting up a monthly accrual entry if you can reasonably estimate quarterly income. This smooths out the cash flow impact and helps with interim financial reporting. Many partnerships provide monthly or quarterly income estimates that make this feasible. The key is consistency - pick a method for handling the timing differences and stick with it throughout the year. Your 1120S will always report the full K-1 income regardless of distributions, so focus on making sure your investment account properly tracks your economic interest in the partnership.
This is really helpful, Mohamed! I appreciate the clear journal entry examples. One follow-up question - when you mention tracking tax basis separately from book basis, are you suggesting maintaining a completely separate schedule outside of QBO for the tax basis calculation? I'm particularly concerned about the partnership debt aspect you mentioned. Our LLC has some equipment financing that I think affects my basis, but I'm not sure how to properly account for that in my S-Corp books. Should that debt impact the Investment in LLC account in QBO, or is that something that only matters for the tax basis tracking? Also, your point about monthly accruals is intriguing. Do you reverse those accrual entries when you get the actual K-1, or do you just adjust the final quarter to true up to the actual amounts? I'd love to smooth out the financial reporting but want to make sure I'm not creating more complexity than necessary.
Just to add some official info - the IRS actually started processing returns on January 27th this year, so if you filed last week you're in the first batch! You can check your refund status on the IRS "Where's My Refund" tool. And yeah, Chime will get it to you 1-2 days early once the IRS releases it, but that's it - no actual advances like H&R Block does.
Wait, I thought the IRS started processing on January 27th but that was just when they started accepting returns for this tax season. If Emma filed "last week" that would be mid-January, so her return might not have been processed yet since the season just opened. The 21-day clock doesn't start until they actually begin processing, right?
You're absolutely right! I got confused about the dates. If she filed last week (mid-January), her return would have just been sitting there waiting until the IRS officially started processing on January 27th. So the 21-day processing timeline would start from the 27th, not from when she actually filed. Thanks for catching that! @Ashley Adams might want to clarify that part.
Hey Emma! Just wanted to share my experience - I've been using Chime for my refunds for the past 2 years. While they don't offer actual tax advances (like fronting you money before the IRS processes), they do get your refund to you about 2 days earlier than traditional banks once the IRS releases it. Last year I got mine on a Wednesday when most of my friends with regular banks got theirs on Friday. It's not a huge difference but every bit helps! Since you filed early, you should be in good shape once processing really gets going.
I've been following this conversation with great interest as our tennis booster club is facing the exact same dilemma. Ruby, I want to echo what others have said about avoiding the 501(c)(7) route - we almost made that mistake ourselves until our accountant warned us about the potential issues. One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is the importance of having proper corporate structure in place BEFORE applying for tax exemption. Make sure you're incorporated as a nonprofit corporation in your state first, then apply for federal tax exemption. Many booster clubs operate as unincorporated associations, but the IRS generally prefers to see formal corporate structure for 501(c)(3) applications. Also, regarding the social events concern - don't worry about organizing family events! The IRS understands that educational support organizations often have social components. The key is that your PRIMARY purpose needs to be supporting the band's educational mission. Social activities can be secondary as long as they're not your main focus. I'd strongly recommend getting your documentation reviewed before submitting. After seeing all the positive feedback about taxr.ai in this thread, I'm definitely planning to use that service for our application. Better to catch any issues upfront than deal with rejection letters and delays later. Good luck with your application process! The fact that you're asking these questions now shows you're on the right track.
This is such valuable information! I'm new to this whole process and honestly feeling pretty overwhelmed by all the requirements. The point about incorporating as a nonprofit corporation first is something I hadn't even considered - our track booster club has just been operating informally with a basic bank account. Can someone clarify the typical timeline for this whole process? If we need to incorporate first, then apply for tax exemption, how long should we expect this to take from start to finish? We're hoping to have everything sorted out before our spring fundraising season kicks into high gear. Also, @William Schwarz, when you mention having an accountant warn you about 501(c)(7) issues, what specific red flags did they point out? I want to make sure I understand all the potential pitfalls before we move forward.
Great question about timing, Hiroshi! I can share our experience with the incorporation and tax exemption process since we just completed it for our swimming booster club. For incorporation, it varies by state but typically takes 2-4 weeks if you file online. Most states charge between $50-100 for nonprofit incorporation. You'll need to have your bylaws, articles of incorporation, and board members identified before filing. Some states offer expedited processing for an additional fee if you're in a hurry. Once you're incorporated and have your state certificate, you can immediately apply for your EIN (takes about 10 minutes online), then submit your 1023-EZ application. The IRS is currently processing most 1023-EZ applications in 2-4 weeks, so you're looking at roughly 6-10 weeks total from start to finish if everything goes smoothly. Regarding the 501(c)(7) red flags - our CPA pointed out that social clubs have very strict limitations on fundraising from non-members. Since booster clubs typically sell concessions and merchandise to the general public (not just member families), we'd likely violate the 35% non-member income limit that could jeopardize the exemption. Plus, social club members can't deduct their dues as charitable contributions, which would hurt our fundraising efforts. The educational support mission of a 501(c)(3) is a much better fit for what booster clubs actually do. I'd recommend starting your incorporation process now so you're ready for spring fundraising season!
Rhett Bowman
One thing to watch out for if you're new to S-Corp health insurance reporting - make sure you understand the timing requirements. The health insurance premiums need to be paid by your S-Corp during the tax year to qualify for the deduction in that same year. I learned this the hard way when I tried to reimburse myself in January for premiums I had personally paid in December of the prior year. The IRS doesn't allow that - the S-Corp itself must make the payments directly to the insurance company or through payroll during the actual tax year you're claiming the deduction. Also, if you have employees, you'll need to make sure health insurance is available to them on the same terms, or there are specific ownership percentage rules that apply. This gets complex quickly if you have other shareholders or employees, so definitely consult a tax professional if your situation isn't straightforward single-owner S-Corp.
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MidnightRider
โขThis timing requirement is so crucial and I wish someone had told me about it earlier! I made a similar mistake where I was personally paying the premiums and then trying to reimburse myself from the S-Corp at year-end. Had to scramble to restructure how we handle it going forward. One follow-up question though - if you have a single-member S-Corp with no other employees, do you still need to worry about the "same terms" requirement for employees? Or does that only kick in once you actually have W-2 employees other than yourself? Also, for the direct payment requirement, does it matter if the S-Corp pays the insurance company directly versus paying it through payroll as additional compensation that you then use to pay the premiums yourself?
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Lara Woods
โข@MidnightRider Great questions! For single-member S-Corps with no other employees, you don't need to worry about the "same terms" requirement - that only applies when you have actual W-2 employees other than yourself as the owner. Regarding payment method, both approaches can work, but there's an important distinction. If the S-Corp pays the insurance company directly, it's cleaner and easier to document. If you go the payroll route (S-Corp pays you additional compensation that you use for premiums), make sure the extra compensation amount specifically corresponds to the insurance premiums and is properly documented as such. The key is that the S-Corp must be the entity ultimately funding the premiums during the tax year, and you need to be able to show that connection clearly. Direct payment to the insurance company is usually the simpler path and leaves less room for documentation issues. Also, whichever method you choose, stick with it consistently throughout the year - switching back and forth can create confusion during tax preparation.
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Anderson Prospero
This is exactly the kind of confusion I went through when I first elected S-Corp status for my LLC! One thing that really helped me was creating a simple monthly checklist to stay on top of the health insurance reporting requirements. Here's what I do now: At the beginning of each year, I calculate my total expected health insurance premiums and make sure my S-Corp has enough budgeted for payroll taxes on that additional compensation. Then each month when I process payroll, I include 1/12th of the annual health insurance amount in my W-2 wages, even if the actual premium gets paid at a different time in the month. This approach keeps everything consistent and makes year-end much smoother. I also set up a separate business checking account specifically for employee benefits (even though I'm the only employee), which makes tracking these payments super clear for my bookkeeper and accountant. The key insight that took me a while to understand is that you're essentially paying yourself additional wages equal to the health insurance cost, then taking a personal deduction for those same premiums. Once you think of it that way, the whole process makes much more sense!
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Natalie Khan
โขThis monthly approach is brilliant! I've been struggling with the inconsistent timing between when I pay the premiums (usually around the 15th) and when I run payroll (1st of each month). Your suggestion to include 1/12th in each payroll run regardless of when the actual premium payment happens really simplifies things. Quick question about the separate checking account - do you transfer money into that account specifically for the health insurance payments, or do you use it for all employee-related expenses? I'm trying to decide if it's worth the extra complexity of managing another account versus just being more diligent about categorizing expenses in my main business account. Also, have you found that spreading it evenly across 12 months creates any issues if your actual premium amounts change mid-year due to plan changes or rate increases? I'm wondering if I should true-up the amounts quarterly or just handle any differences in December.
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