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Going back to the original question about Justice Thomas - there's also the issue of whether these were actually "gifts" in the tax sense. The IRS defines a gift as a transfer made out of "detached and disinterested generosity." If there's an expectation of something in return (even implied), it's not technically a gift and could be taxable income. For regular people, the IRS rarely challenges gift classification. But for public officials, especially judges, large transfers labeled as "gifts" from people who might have interests before the court could potentially be scrutinized differently.
That's really interesting about the "detached and disinterested generosity" definition. How would the IRS even determine if there was an expectation of something in return? Seems pretty subjective. Would they look at things like whether the gift-giver had cases before the court?
The IRS would look at the relationship between the parties, the timing of the gifts, and any pattern of behavior that might suggest the transfers weren't purely generous. They consider factors like whether the giver had business before the recipient (in this case, cases before the court) and whether the amounts seem disproportionate to their personal relationship. You're right that it's subjective and often difficult to prove. The burden would be on the IRS to demonstrate that the transfers weren't genuine gifts. For high-profile situations, they might examine communications between parties, the history of their relationship, and whether the recipient took actions that benefited the giver after receiving the gifts. But these cases are complex and rarely straightforward.
I think we're missing something important here - federal judges and Supreme Court justices have specific financial disclosure requirements separate from tax laws. They have to file annual financial disclosure forms listing gifts above certain thresholds. This is completely separate from tax compliance. So even if the gift tax rules were followed correctly (donor filing Form 709, etc.), there could still be ethics issues if the gifts weren't properly disclosed on these judicial financial disclosure forms. That's a separate potential problem from any tax compliance issues.
Just want to clarify something about HDHPs and HSA eligibility - even being covered under a qualifying HDHP doesn't automatically make someone eligible for HSA contributions. You also can't be covered by any non-HDHP coverage (with few exceptions like dental or vision) and can't be claimed as a tax dependent on someone else's return.
From my experience with a similar situation last year, the best approach is to make sure each person is only contributing based on the months where they were the policyholder or spouse of the policyholder (not just a domestic partner) on an HDHP. The IRS regulations are really specific that domestic partners don't get the same treatment as spouses for HSAs. Also remember that if you correct excess contributions before the tax filing deadline, the 6% penalty doesn't apply. But if you don't, you'll pay that penalty each year until corrected.
Another option to consider is filing Form W-4V to elect voluntary additional withholding. If they won't change their method, you could potentially offset their excessive withholding by claiming more allowances. Not ideal, but might help mitigate the overwithholding problem. Also, if this continues, you might want to adjust your quarterly estimated tax payments to account for the expected refund. This could help with your cash flow throughout the year rather than waiting for a large refund.
Wouldn't filing Form W-4V only work for certain government payments? My NQDC is from a private employer. And for the quarterly estimated payments - wouldn't I potentially face underpayment penalties if I reduce them too much, even if I know I'll get a big refund later?
You're absolutely right about Form W-4V - I misspoke. For employer payments, you'd use a regular Form W-4. My apologies for the confusion! Regarding estimated tax payments, you're also correct to be concerned about underpayment penalties. However, the IRS has a "safe harbor" provision - if you pay at least 90% of the current year's tax or 100% of the prior year's tax (110% if your AGI exceeds $150,000), you won't face penalties. So you could potentially use last year's tax liability as your guide for this year's payments, taking into account the expected overwithholding from your NQDC distribution.
Has anyone considered that the employer might actually be required to withhold at this rate? I work in payroll (different industry) and sometimes supplemental wages above certain thresholds have mandatory withholding requirements that can't be adjusted, especially for high-income earners. Just wondering if this might be a compliance thing rather than a mistake.
That's not accurate for NQDC distributions. While there are mandatory withholding rates for some supplemental wages (like bonuses), NQDC distributions definitely allow for either the aggregate method or the flat rate method. The issue here is that the employer is choosing the method that creates an artificially high withholding rate by annualizing a single payment. The mandatory withholding for supplemental wages over $1 million is 37%, but that's only for the portion above $1M. For someone receiving $165k annually, that's not even relevant.
Another approach that worked for our county agency was contacting our state's tax department. Since they also have to comply with Pub 1075 for their IRS data sharing agreement, they had already created a modified template that addresses the 2021 requirements. They were happy to share their template with us after we signed an NDA. Many state tax departments have dedicated Safeguards Coordinators who work on this compliance full-time and might have better resources than what's publicly available.
That's a smart approach I hadn't considered. Did your state make substantial changes to the template format, or did they just add sections for the new requirements? I'm trying to gauge how different the new SSR should look.
They kept the same general structure of the 2016 template but expanded several sections. The most significant changes were in the areas covering cloud environments, remote access, and encryption requirements. They also added entirely new sections for container security, mobile device management, and the updated incident response procedures. The nice thing about their template is that they clearly marked which requirements were from the 2021 revision, making it easy to see what's new. The overall document ended up being about 20% longer than the old template due to the additional controls.
One important thing to note about Pub 1075 compliance for 2021 that hasn't been mentioned yet - they've significantly changed how they want agencies to handle virtual environments and cloud computing. If you're using any cloud services like AWS, Azure, or Google Cloud to process or store FTI, there are completely new requirements that weren't in the 2016 revision. The SSR needs to specifically document how your cloud environment meets requirements like FedRAMP authorization and data segregation.
Sayid Hassan
Small but important detail: make sure you know the CURRENT reporting threshold for Form 3520. It's adjusted for inflation every year. For 2024, gifts from foreign individuals need to be reported if they exceed $100,000 (aggregate annual amount). A friend of mine got a penalty for not filing because she was using outdated information about the threshold. Also, don't forget the deadline for Form 3520 is your regular tax filing deadline (including extensions).
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Rachel Tao
ā¢Isn't the deadline different for Form 3520-A though? I know that's for foreign trusts, but I get confused between all these similar forms.
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Sayid Hassan
ā¢You're right to ask about that. Form 3520-A (Annual Information Return of Foreign Trust With a U.S. Owner) has a different deadline - it's due March 15 for calendar year trusts, while Form 3520 is due with your individual tax return. But in the original poster's case, we're talking about Form 3520 for reporting a foreign gift, not Form 3520-A which is for foreign trusts with US owners. So the deadline would be the same as their regular tax return filing date (April 15, or October 15 with an extension). Always good to be clear about which form we're discussing since they have similar numbers but different purposes and deadlines.
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Derek Olson
Has anyone here actually been audited over Form 3520? I'm wondering how aggressive the IRS is about enforcing these foreign gift reporting requirements. My tax person made it sound like failing to file this form is basically guaranteed penalties.
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Danielle Mays
ā¢My cousin got hit with a $10,000 penalty for not filing a 3520 for a gift from his grandmother in Korea. He had no idea about the requirement and the IRS showed zero mercy even though it was an honest mistake. They're definitely enforcing this.
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