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From my understanding, the IRS might view this differently than just normal gifts back and forth. When you transfer property to avoid creditors and then get it back later, they could potentially see this as you maintaining beneficial ownership the entire time (meaning you never really gave up ownership in substance, just on paper). If that's how they interpret it, your basis would still be your original purchase price plus improvements. But there could be other issues to consider beyond just basis calculation.
Thanks for this perspective. I'm worried the IRS might see it that way too. Do you think I should consult with a tax attorney before selling? I'm concerned about potential penalties beyond just calculating the basis wrong.
Consulting with a tax attorney would definitely be a good idea in your situation. They can review the specific details of your transfers and advise you not just on the correct basis calculation but also on any potential exposure you might have regarding the transfers themselves. A good tax attorney can also help you understand the statute of limitations that might apply to your situation and develop a strategy for how to properly document and report the sale to minimize your risk of problems down the road. The peace of mind alone is probably worth the consultation fee.
Has anyone considered the possible gift tax implications of these transfers? When the property was transferred to the mother and then back again, were gift tax returns filed? That could affect how the IRS views the basis.
One tax benefit of holding companies nobody's mentioned yet is asset protection. I put my three rental properties into an LLC that's owned by my holding company. Now if a tenant sues for one property, they can't go after the other properties or my personal assets. The tax benefits were secondary for me - being able to deduct more management expenses was nice but the asset protection was the real win. Just make sure you're actually running it like a real company with separate accounts and proper documentation.
But don't you get hit with franchise taxes in most states when you set up those LLCs? I heard California charges $800 minimum per LLC, so with multiple properties that adds up fast. Are the tax benefits really worth those extra costs?
You're right about the franchise taxes - they definitely cut into the benefits. In California it's $800 per LLC which is painful, but I'm in Tennessee where the annual fee is much lower ($300). For me, the math still works out when I consider both the tax advantages and the asset protection. I'm able to legitimately deduct more business expenses through the holding company structure, including a portion of travel related to property management, home office expenses, and administrative costs that were harder to claim as an individual investor.
Has anyone looked into how the qualified business income deduction (Section 199A) works with holding companies? I've heard conflicting things - some say you lose the 20% deduction with certain holding company structures, others say you can actually maximize it. I'm currently making about $310k from my consulting business and I'm right at the phase-out threshold for the QBI deduction.
This is a great question about QBI and holding companies. The Section 199A deduction can be tricky with holding companies because certain structures might limit your ability to claim it. If your holding company is classified as a specified service trade or business (SSTB) and your income is above the threshold (which at $310k, yours is), you'll face limitations. However, a properly structured holding company might allow you to separate SSTB income from non-SSTB income, potentially preserving some of the QBI deduction.
Just wanted to add something important that nobody has mentioned yet. If you do file late and end up owing money, you might want to look into an IRS payment plan. They'll usually work with you, especially if you've been filing and paying on time since then. The online payment agreement on IRS.gov is pretty easy to set up. Also, definitely keep copies of EVERYTHING - your wage transcript, the Form 4852, any communications with the IRS, and your filed return. You might need to reference them later, especially if questions come up about that tax year.
Thanks for mentioning this! Do you know if setting up a payment plan affects your credit score? And is there a minimum amount I have to pay monthly or can I set it to whatever I can afford?
Setting up an IRS payment plan generally doesn't directly affect your credit score - the IRS doesn't report to credit bureaus like a normal lender would. However, if you fail to pay and the IRS files a tax lien, that WILL hurt your credit. So the payment plan actually helps protect your credit by preventing more serious collection actions. For monthly payment amounts, it depends on how much you owe. For debts under $10,000, you can pretty much set your own monthly payment as long as you can pay off the full amount within 3 years. For larger amounts, the IRS may want financial information to determine what you can afford. They're surprisingly reasonable about this - they'd rather get paid slowly than not at all.
I'm surprised nobody mentioned checking your Social Security earnings record! Go to ssa.gov and create an account if you don't have one. Your earnings history will show how much was reported to Social Security for each year, including 2017. It won't have tax withholding info, but at least you'll know the total wages that were reported for you that year. That can be super helpful when filling out Form 4852.
This is actually brilliant advice. I had a similar situation (though not as old) and the Social Security earnings record was spot on. Combined with the IRS transcript it gave me everything I needed!
My accountant told me the easiest solution is just to write "mortgage reimbursement" in the notes section of the payment app whenever you send money. That way there's a clear record of what the payment was for if questions ever come up. Also, some people in similar situations set up automatic transfers from their bank account to their partner's account instead of using payment apps, which avoids the whole 1099-K reporting situation entirely.
Thanks for the suggestion! Do you know if bank-to-bank transfers also fall under this $600 reporting threshold, or is that just for payment apps?
Bank-to-bank transfers don't fall under the same $600 reporting requirements that apply to payment apps. Those rules specifically target third-party payment networks like PayPal, Venmo, etc. Regular transfers between bank accounts aren't subject to 1099-K reporting regardless of the amount. This is why some people prefer setting up direct transfers for recurring payments like rent or mortgage sharing. It's more straightforward from a tax perspective since there's no confusion about whether it's a business or personal transaction.
Maybe a dumb question but has anyone tried just sending multiple smaller payments under $600 instead of one large one? Like if you owe $1200, sending two $600 payments?
That's called "structuring" and it's actually illegal if you're doing it specifically to avoid reporting requirements. Not worth the risk just to avoid something that isn't even taxable in the first place.
Esteban Tate
Don't feel bad! I've been in tax for 7 years and international issues still trip me up sometimes. What helped me was finding a mentor who specifically worked with expatriate tax issues. Have you tried asking if there's someone at your firm who would be willing to have brief pre-review sessions with you? Sometimes catching mistakes before formal submission can help you learn faster without the embarrassment of official review notes.
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Freya Ross
ā¢That's a good suggestion. There's a senior manager who seems approachable - maybe I could ask her if she'd be willing to do quick pre-reviews for me on the more complex returns. Did you find your mentor within your firm or through a professional organization?
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Esteban Tate
ā¢I found my mentor within my firm initially, but I also connected with another experienced expatriate tax professional through our local CPA society's international tax committee. Professional organizations like that are goldmines for finding people who are willing to help. My in-firm mentor would spend 15 minutes with me before I submitted anything complex, which cut my review notes down dramatically. The external mentor was great for bigger-picture career advice. Don't underestimate how willing people are to help someone who shows genuine interest in improving!
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Ivanna St. Pierre
Has anyone tried supplementing their knowledge with specialized training? I found that the general CPE courses don't really cover expatriate taxation in enough detail to be useful.
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Elin Robinson
ā¢The IRS actually has some decent webinars specifically about international taxation. There's also a certification program through the American Academy of Attorney-CPAs focused on international tax that goes into much greater depth than regular CPE.
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