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Should my dad contribute to a SEP IRA for 2023 if they're already planning backdoor Roth?

My dad recently stopped being self-employed and started working for a big corporation. My mom (who's a tax accountant but doesn't specialize in retirement planning) calculated that he could still contribute up to $12,889 to a SEP IRA for 2023 based on his self-employment income from last year. Their tax situation is: - 2023 tax bracket: 24% - 2024 tax bracket: Either 24% or 32% (mom's still crunching the numbers) - 2025 tax bracket: Probably 32%, maybe even 35% in future years They've accumulated decent savings in taxable accounts but haven't really maximized tax-advantaged options in the past. I've helped Dad set up his new 401k to max out regular contributions plus mega backdoor Roth, and plan to do the same for Mom if her plan allows it. They have some old Traditional IRAs that we're rolling into their 401ks (which have good fund options) to clear the way for backdoor Roth contributions for the next 5-10 years until retirement. My concern is that a SEP IRA contribution would be pre-tax and cause pro-rata issues for backdoor Roth conversions. And from what I understand, unlike Traditional IRAs, you can't roll SEP IRAs into a 401k. I see three options: 1. Skip the SEP IRA entirely and just do backdoor Roth IRA every year 2. Contribute $12,889 to SEP IRA for 2023 to get the $3,093 tax break but give up future backdoor Roth options 3. Do both: Contribute to SEP IRA for 2023, then convert it to Roth in 2024 (paying taxes), and continue backdoor Roth in future years Option 2 seems worst. For option 3, if they stay in the 24% bracket for 2024, it's basically getting the same tax benefit as a larger backdoor Roth. But if they jump to 32% in 2024, they'd pay $4,124 in taxes on the conversion, which seems counterproductive. Am I missing anything in my analysis? What would you recommend?

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet - your parents should consider whether they expect to be in a lower tax bracket in retirement. If they believe they'll be in the 24% bracket or lower during retirement, then making the SEP contribution now could make sense even if they can't do backdoor Roth later. The traditional advice is: - Contribute to pre-tax accounts when your current tax rate is higher than your expected retirement tax rate - Contribute to Roth accounts when your current tax rate is lower than your expected retirement tax rate If they're already in the 24% bracket moving to 32%+, and expect to withdraw at rates below 24% in retirement, the math might favor taking the tax break now with the SEP contribution, despite the backdoor Roth complications.

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Caesar Grant

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That's a good point. They're planning to retire in about 8-10 years, and I think their retirement income will put them around the 22-24% bracket based on their pension and expected 401k/IRA withdrawals. So it sounds like pre-tax contributions still make sense now, especially in 2023 if they're in the 24% bracket. But doesn't that still leave the question of whether to do the SEP for 2023 vs. prioritizing backdoor Roth going forward? The SEP would block backdoor Roth unless we convert it (paying taxes again).

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If their retirement tax bracket is expected to be 22-24%, then yes, pre-tax contributions make sense now, especially while they're still in the 24% bracket. For your specific question about 2023 SEP vs. future backdoor Roth, I'd recommend a hybrid approach. Have your dad make a SEP contribution for 2023, but perhaps not the full $12,889. He could contribute just enough to keep him from spilling into a higher bracket. This gives some tax savings now while limiting the amount that would affect future backdoor Roth conversions. Then for 2024 and beyond, focus on maxing out his employer 401k (including any after-tax contributions for mega backdoor Roth) before considering backdoor Roth IRA strategies. The 401k contributions would give him the pre-tax benefit without the pro-rata complications of the SEP.

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OP, has your mom considered exactly how much extra income would push them from 24% to 32%? The jump between those brackets is pretty significant (about $190k to $364k for married filing jointly in 2023). If they're right on the edge of the 32% bracket for 2024, the SEP contribution for 2023 actually makes even MORE sense because it could potentially keep them in the 24% bracket next year too. This would be a double win - tax savings for 2023 AND 2024. Also, for what it's worth, I was in a similar situation and ended up converting my SEP IRA to Roth in smaller chunks over several years during periods when my income was temporarily lower (like when I took unpaid leave for a few months).

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Demi Lagos

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This is a really good point about being near the bracket edge. Moving from 24% to 32% is an 8% jump which is huge. If a $12,889 SEP contribution could keep them in the lower bracket for 2024, that would save significantly more than just the direct tax benefit on the contribution itself.

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Caesar Grant

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That's actually a fantastic point I hadn't considered! They're definitely near the edge of the bracket - I think my mom estimated they'll be about $15-20k over the 24% threshold for 2024 without any additional deductions. So a $12,889 SEP contribution for 2023 wouldn't directly affect 2024 taxes, but it would free up cash they could use for other deductions or opportunities in 2024. I'll definitely bring this up with them - maybe they could increase 401k contributions enough in 2024 to stay in the 24% bracket if they preserve more cash now with the SEP contribution for 2023. Thanks for this perspective!

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Darcy Moore

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Don't forget that if you make the 6013(h) election, you need to report ALL worldwide income for BOTH spouses for the ENTIRE year. This includes any foreign bank accounts, investments, etc. that your spouse had before becoming a permanent resident. This catches a lot of people by surprise!

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TommyKapitz

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Wait, so even income my wife earned in her home country BEFORE getting her green card would count? We'd have to pay US taxes on that too? That seems unfair since she wasn't even a resident then!

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Darcy Moore

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Yes, that's exactly right. When you make the 6013(h) election, you're choosing to be treated as US residents for the ENTIRE tax year. This means all worldwide income from January 1st onward is subject to US tax reporting requirements, even income earned before your wife physically became a resident. It can seem unfair, but the trade-off is that you get to file jointly, which often saves significantly on taxes overall. You may also be eligible for the Foreign Tax Credit if she paid taxes on that income in her home country, which can offset any US tax owed on the foreign income.

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Dana Doyle

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Has anyone used TurboTax for the 6013(h) election? I'm not sure if it can handle this situation or if I need to use a different software.

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Liam Duke

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TurboTax can handle it but not super smoothly. You'll need to manually attach the election statement. I used TurboTax last year for this exact scenario and had to write up the statement separately. The premium version did walk me through the dual-status alien questions though!

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Ethan Scott

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Another option would be to have the partnership lease your vehicle. You could charge the partnership a fair market rate for the business use of your car. The partnership gets the deduction and you report the lease income, but you can offset that with depreciation, insurance, maintenance, etc. on your Schedule E. Just make sure you have a formal written lease agreement and keep track of business vs. personal use carefully. This approach can sometimes be more advantageous than the standard mileage rate depending on your vehicle's value and operating costs.

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That's an interesting approach I hadn't considered! Do you know if there would be any additional tax implications I should be aware of with this method? And would I still be able to claim the standard mileage rate for the personal use of my vehicle on other schedules?

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Ethan Scott

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If you go the lease route, you'd be treating the vehicle as rental property on your Schedule E, so you'd need to track and deduct actual expenses rather than using the standard mileage rate. You'd report the lease income from the partnership, then deduct expenses like depreciation, insurance, maintenance, and fuel based on business percentage use. For the portion of your vehicle used personally, you wouldn't be able to claim any deduction since that's considered personal use. The standard mileage rate wouldn't apply once you've chosen to treat the vehicle as rental property. This approach works best for newer, more expensive vehicles where actual expenses exceed what the standard mileage rate would provide.

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Lola Perez

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Has anyone tried just having the partnership reimburse you directly for the miles at a rate BELOW the standard mileage rate, and then claiming the difference on your personal return? My accountant suggested this as a way to split the benefit - partnership gets a deduction for the reimbursement, and you get to claim the difference between the reimbursement rate and the standard rate as an employee business expense.

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That approach won't work anymore. Employee business expenses were eliminated as deductions for most people with the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017. Unless you're in certain specific professions (like armed forces reservists, qualified performing artists, etc.), you can't deduct unreimbursed employee business expenses on your personal return.

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Just a warning for anyone doing backdoor Roth contributions: make sure you're not overlooking the pro-rata rule if you have other traditional IRA assets. I got majorly screwed on my taxes because I didn't realize my SEP IRA would affect my backdoor Roth conversion taxes. Had to pay tax on most of the conversion even though I was trying to do a non-taxable backdoor.

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Zara Ahmed

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What exactly is the pro-rata rule? I've been doing backdoor Roth for 2 years but have an old traditional IRA with about $30k in it. Should I be worried?

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Yes, you should definitely be concerned. The pro-rata rule means you can't just convert your non-deductible contributions tax-free if you have other pre-tax IRA money. The IRS looks at all your IRA accounts (traditional, SEP, SIMPLE) as one big pot when you do a conversion. The taxable portion is calculated based on the ratio of pre-tax money to the total IRA balance. So if 80% of your total IRA money is pre-tax, then 80% of any conversion will be taxable regardless of which specific dollars you're converting.

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Has anyone used TurboTax for reporting backdoor Roth contributions? I'm finding it super confusing how to enter everything correctly, especially for contributions made for 2023 in early 2024.

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Nia Thompson

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TurboTax actually handles this pretty well but it's not obvious. You need to go to the IRA contributions section and make sure you select "nondeductible contributions." It'll then walk you through Form 8606. Just make sure you indicate which tax year the contribution was for. For the conversion, that goes in a separate section under "IRA distributions.

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Ava Martinez

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Don't forget to look into stepped-up basis rules! If your name wasn't the only one on the deed and your father had partial ownership, his portion would receive a stepped-up basis to the fair market value at his date of death. This could significantly reduce your capital gains tax liability. Also, keep in mind that if you used the home to care for your father, you might qualify for some medical expense deductions if you paid for modifications to the home for medical care (wheelchair ramps, grab bars, etc.). These are deductible as medical expenses if they exceed the 7.5% AGI threshold.

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That's interesting about the stepped-up basis, but unfortunately the house was solely in my name from the beginning. We never did a joint ownership. However, I did install a wheelchair ramp and some bathroom modifications for him last year. I hadn't even thought about claiming those as medical expenses! Is there a specific form I need to use for that?

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Ava Martinez

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Since the property was solely in your name, you're right that the stepped-up basis wouldn't apply. However, those modifications for your father's care are definitely potential medical expense deductions. You would claim these on Schedule A as itemized deductions under medical expenses. You'll need to keep receipts for the wheelchair ramp and bathroom modifications as supporting documentation. Remember that total medical expenses are only deductible to the extent they exceed 7.5% of your adjusted gross income. If the modifications were substantial, they could help you reach that threshold, especially combined with other medical expenses you may have incurred.

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Has anyone used FreeTaxUSA for a situation like this? TurboTax kept confusing me when I tried to enter the sale of my mother-in-law's home that was in our name.

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I used FreeTaxUSA last year for a similar scenario with my aunt's house. It was actually much clearer than TurboTax for entering the capital gains info. They have a specific section for sale of home where you can indicate it wasn't your primary residence, and then it walks you through calculating your basis and gain or loss. So much cheaper than TurboTax too!

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