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I'm a real estate investor who's done several deals through my self-directed IRA, and yes, UBTI is a legitimate concern. Here's what's happening in your case: When an IRA invests in an LLC that uses leverage (debt/mortgages) to purchase property, the portion of income attributable to that debt financing becomes subject to UBTI tax. This is called "acquisition indebtedness" in tax terms. The EIN is required because technically your IRA becomes a separate taxable entity for UBTI purposes. Your IRA custodian should have explained this upfront. The real question is whether this setup makes sense for you. With smaller investments, the UBTI tax and administrative costs can outweigh the benefits. For larger investments, the leverage benefits might outweigh the tax costs. Ask your CPA to calculate the effective return both ways - with direct cash investment vs. IRA with UBTI tax impact.
Would it be better to just use a Roth IRA for this kind of real estate investing? Does UBTI still apply with Roth accounts? Trying to figure out the best structure before I get started.
UBTI rules apply equally to both Traditional and Roth IRAs - there's no advantage to either type when it comes to UBTI taxation. The difference is that with a Traditional IRA, you'll eventually pay taxes on distributions anyway, while with a Roth, you'd normally never pay taxes on qualified distributions. This makes UBTI potentially more disadvantageous in a Roth because you're paying taxes on money that would otherwise grow completely tax-free. However, if the leveraged real estate investment significantly outperforms other potential investments even after UBTI tax, it might still be worthwhile in either account type.
Has anyone here used a "checkbook IRA LLC" structure for real estate? I'm wondering if that approach changes anything with the UBTI requirements the original poster is asking about. My financial advisor mentioned it as an option but couldn't explain the tax implications clearly.
I used the checkbook IRA LLC structure for several years. The UBTI rules still apply exactly the same way - if there's debt-financing involved in the real estate, you'll trigger UBTI regardless of whether it's a direct IRA investment or through a checkbook LLC. The checkbook structure gives you more control over the investments but doesn't change the tax treatment. You'll still need an EIN for UBTI reporting purposes if applicable.
Your cousin should also look into whether he qualifies for IRS Form 911 (Taxpayer Advocate Service) help. If he can demonstrate that the payment requirements are causing significant financial hardship (like inability to pay for necessities), the Taxpayer Advocate can sometimes intervene. They're an independent organization within the IRS designed to help taxpayers resolve issues.
I had no idea this existed! How does my cousin apply for this Form 911 help? Does he need to provide specific documentation about his financial situation?
He'll need to fill out Form 911 (Request for Taxpayer Advocate Service Assistance) which asks for details about the hardship. He should be very specific about exactly how the tax situation is causing financial hardship - like documentation showing he can't pay rent, utilities, or medical expenses because of the tax payments. Supporting documentation is super important - recent bank statements, bills, income proof, anything showing the gap between income and necessary expenses. The more concrete evidence of hardship, the better his chances. He can submit the form online, by mail, or fax. Sometimes it's actually faster to reach out to his local Taxpayer Advocate office directly by phone - the form includes contact info for local offices.
One thing nobody mentioned - since he was a 1099 contractor, he might have missed a bunch of legitimate business deductions that could lower his original tax bill before even looking at payment plans or settlements. Common missed deductions for contractors include: - Home office (if he works from home) - Business mileage - Phone/internet (business portion) - Health insurance premiums - Retirement contributions - Business equipment
One thing nobody has mentioned yet - if you made any payments toward that 2010 tax debt AFTER your bankruptcy, that could have reset the statute of limitations clock completely. I learned this the hard way with a 2008 tax debt that I thought was long gone, but one $50 payment I made in 2016 restarted the whole 10-year period. Also, if the IRS filed a Notice of Federal Tax Lien before your bankruptcy, that lien might still be attached to any property you owned before the bankruptcy, even if the debt itself can't be collected anymore. Worth checking your county records to see if there's an old lien that needs to be addressed.
I don't think I made any payments after the bankruptcy, but now I'm paranoid. Would partial payments reset the clock or only full payments? And how would I check for liens? Just call the county recorder's office?
Any payment, even a small partial payment, can reset the collection statute. It's one of the ways people accidentally revive old tax debts. The IRS sometimes even sends out collection notices on expired debts hoping you'll make a payment without realizing it restarts the clock. For liens, yes, you can check with your county recorder's office or clerk's office. Most counties now have online systems where you can search for liens by name. If you find a lien and your debt is truly beyond the collection statute, you can request a "lien withdrawal" from the IRS using Form 12277. Just be careful about contacting them if you're not 100% sure the debt is uncollectible.
Don't forget about refund offsets! Even if they can't actively collect anymore, the IRS can still take any tax refunds you might be owed and apply them to old debts. This happens automatically through their system and isn't considered active collection, so it can happen even after the statute expires in some cases. I'd recommend adjusting your withholding so you don't have refunds coming if you're concerned about this. Better to owe a small amount each year (but pay it on time!) than to have refunds intercepted.
Is this really true? I thought once the statute of limitations was up, they couldn't touch your money at all - including refunds. Can someone confirm if refund offset is really not subject to the 10-year rule?
You're partially right - I should have been more clear. For most federal tax debts, the refund offset ability does end when the collection statute expires. However, there are exceptions for things like child support, student loans, state tax debts, and a few other categories that can continue to offset refunds. Also, if the IRS has already applied your refund to an old tax debt before the statute expires, they don't have to give it back even if the debt becomes uncollectible later. Always best to check your tax transcripts for the specific collection statute expiration date (CSED) for each tax year you owe.
One important thing no one's mentioned yet - don't forget about the property tax deduction too, not just mortgage interest! When I inherited my aunt's house, I found out I could deduct the property taxes I paid even while the house title was still being transferred. Make sure you're tracking all the property tax payments separately from the mortgage interest. Some banks include property tax in the mortgage payment and some don't. You'll want to claim both deductions if possible.
Oh that's a good point - the property taxes are paid through the mortgage escrow. Would those be split between the estate and me in the same way as the interest? The property was reassessed after the inheritance too, so the taxes went up.
Yes, property taxes would typically be split the same way as the mortgage interest - based on when the mortgage was legally in your name versus the estate's name. However, since you were the legal owner of the property (the deed was in your name) earlier than the mortgage transfer, you might be able to claim all property taxes paid after the deed transfer regardless of whose name was on the mortgage. The property tax reassessment is actually important too - when you inherit property, you often get a "stepped-up basis" to the fair market value at the time of death, which affects your cost basis if you ever sell the property. Keep all documentation about the reassessment as you'll need that for future tax implications.
PNC is absolutely terrible with inherited mortgages. I went through something similar and ended up having to get a tax attorney involved because they sent conflicting tax forms. For what it's worth, my attorney said that mortgage interest can be deducted by whoever actually paid it, regardless of whose name is on the form, BUT you need proper documentation showing you made the payments. Save all your bank statements showing the mortgage payments coming from your account. Also, the tax rules changed a bit in recent years - you can only deduct interest on up to $750,000 of qualified residence loans now (used to be $1 million), so make sure that's not an issue if it's a high-value property.
StarStrider
Another thing to consider is your long-term financial goals. If you're planning to claim education tax credits like the Lifetime Learning Credit or the American Opportunity Credit, make sure the capital loss deduction doesn't interfere with those. Sometimes lowering your AGI too much can affect your eligibility for certain credits.
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Andre Rousseau
ā¢That's really helpful advice! We do claim education credits each year. Would taking the capital loss deduction potentially mess with those benefits? What should I watch out for?
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StarStrider
ā¢Generally, lowering your AGI with capital losses is actually beneficial for most education credits since many have income phaseout limits. The American Opportunity Credit starts phasing out at $80,000 for single filers and $160,000 for joint filers, while the Lifetime Learning Credit begins phasing out at $80,000 for single and $160,000 for joint filers. Capital losses that reduce your AGI could potentially help you stay under these thresholds if you're close to them. However, if your income is already low, you should ensure you have enough tax liability for non-refundable credits to be applied against. The AOTC is partially refundable, but the LLC is not refundable at all.
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Dylan Campbell
Just be careful with the timing... if you sell in December 2024, remember you'll need to realize any offsetting gains also in 2024. If you wait until January to sell, the loss will count for your 2025 taxes instead. This bit me last year when I sold some losers in December thinking I was being smart but then realized gains in January, so I couldn't offset them!
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Sofia Torres
ā¢Question - does it matter which lots you sell if you bought the same stock multiple times? Do you have to sell everything or can you pick which purchases to sell?
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