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One tip from someone who does this every year - if you do make a credit card payment, print and save the confirmation page! The payment processors (not the IRS directly) will give you a confirmation number. I've had situations where the payment took longer than expected to post to my IRS account, and having that confirmation number was crucial. The IRS can look it up even if it hasn't fully processed in their system yet. Also, be aware that different payment processors charge different fees. Last I checked, Pay1040.com had the lowest fee at 1.87%, while some others charge closer to 2%. Not a huge difference, but if you're making a large payment it can add up.
Do you happen to know how long it typically takes for a credit card payment to show up in the IRS system? I need to make a payment ASAP but my electronic withdrawal is scheduled for next week.
In my experience, credit card payments typically take 3-5 business days to show up in the IRS system. However, the payment is considered made on the day you submit it, not when it appears in the IRS records - so you're protected from late payment penalties as long as you complete the transaction by the due date. If your electronic withdrawal is scheduled for next week, I'd recommend making your credit card payment immediately. Even if it doesn't show in the system before the withdrawal date, you can contact the IRS with your confirmation number if there's any issue with double payment. They can always refund overpayments, though it might take some time to process.
Just a warning - I tried doing something similar last year and thought I was being clever by using my credit card for the rewards points. Make sure you do the math on the fees vs. rewards! The 1.87-1.98% fee ended up being slightly more than the value of my credit card points (I get 1.5% cash back). Only makes sense if you're trying to hit a sign-up bonus or have a card with really good rewards rate. Also, if you're cutting it close to the payment deadline, remember that credit card payments are considered timely based on when you submit them, not when the IRS processes them. Just keep your confirmation number as proof.
Good point about doing the math. Some premium travel cards give effectively 2-2.5% value for points when transferred to airline partners though, which can make it worthwhile even with the fees. I always use my Chase Sapphire Reserve for tax payments specifically because the points are worth more than the fees.
One thing nobody's mentioned yet - make sure you're documenting everything for tax purposes, especially if this is your first backdoor Roth. You'll need to file Form 8606 to report the non-deductible Traditional IRA contribution. Then when you do the conversion, you'll receive a 1099-R the following January that you'll need for your taxes. I messed this up my first year and had to file an amended return. The IRS initially tried to tax my conversion as if the entire amount was taxable income, which completely defeats the purpose of the backdoor strategy.
Thanks for mentioning the Form 8606! Would I need to file that for the tax year when I make the contribution to the Traditional IRA, or for the tax year when I do the conversion to Roth? If I contribute now but don't convert until next year, which tax year would it fall under?
You need to file Form 8606 for the tax year in which you make the non-deductible contribution to your Traditional IRA. This establishes your "basis" (after-tax money) in the IRA. If you contribute now (2023 tax year) but don't convert until next year (2024), you would still report the non-deductible contribution on Form 8606 with your 2023 tax return. Then when you do the conversion in 2024, you'd receive a 1099-R for that tax year, and you'd file another Form 8606 with your 2024 return to report the conversion. This is why keeping good records is so important - you need to track your basis over time, especially if you don't convert immediately after contributing.
Has anyone actually done the backdoor Roth with E*TRADE? Vanguard seems like a hassle from what everyone's saying. I'm thinking about opening my accounts somewhere else to avoid these customer service headaches.
Everyone here is focused on the hobby vs business question, but there's another angle to consider. If you're mainly selling model horses that you previously purchased for your collection (rather than making/modifying them yourself), you might be able to treat these as capital assets. When you sell a capital asset, you report the sale price minus what you paid for it (your basis). So if you bought a model horse for $100 and sold it for $150, you'd only pay tax on the $50 profit. This might be a better approach than hobby income if you're primarily just buying and reselling without substantial modification.
This is interesting! Would you use Schedule D for this instead of reporting as hobby income? And do you need to keep receipts for everything to prove what you originally paid?
Just to add another perspective... If you customize or restore the model horses before selling them, that effort might strengthen your case as a business rather than just collecting. You're adding value through your labor and expertise, not just buying and selling. I make and sell handcrafted jewelry and was in a similar position a few years ago. Once I documented my design process, tracked my time spent making pieces, and marketed my work more consistently, my tax preparer was comfortable treating it as a business on Schedule C, even though I wasn't profitable every year.
I do customize some of them! I repaint about 30% of the models I sell, and sometimes do minor repairs on vintage pieces. I just wasn't sure if that was enough to count as a "real business" since it's still mostly just for fun. But it sounds like that could help my case?
That definitely strengthens your case! The customization and repairs show you're adding value through your skills and labor, which is a big factor in the business vs. hobby determination. Make sure you document your work process - take before and after photos of your customizations, track the time you spend on each project, and keep receipts for all supplies. Also, consider creating a separate Instagram or Facebook page showcasing your work, even if it's just casual. Having a business presence online is another factor that supports business treatment. You might also want to look into selling at model horse shows or conventions if you don't already - participating in trade shows is another indicator the IRS looks for when determining if something is a business. The key is to show that you're making decisions with the intent to eventually be profitable, even if you're not there yet.
Quick question about timing - I'm in the same boat (sophomore, made about $7k last year). Is there any benefit to filing early vs waiting until April? I've heard mixed things from friends.
File early!!! Especially if you're expecting a refund. The sooner you file, the sooner you get your money back. Also, identity theft is a real problem - if someone gets your SSN they can file a fake return in your name and steal your refund. Filing early prevents this. Filing early also gives you more time to correct any mistakes if something goes wrong. Last year I waited till the last minute and realized I was missing a form, had to file an extension and it was a whole mess.
If you're nervous about filing yourself, most colleges offer free tax help through the VITA (Volunteer Income Tax Assistance) program. Check your school's financial aid office or accounting department. The volunteers are usually accounting students supervised by professors or tax professionals, and they're certified by the IRS. I used it last year and they were super helpful and explained everything as they went along. Plus it's completely free!
This is what I did! Our business school had accounting students doing this as part of their practical experience. They were super thorough and even found a credit I didn't know about. Definitely worth checking if your school offers this!
Aurora St.Pierre
You might want to check if you need to enter your basis in the Traditional IRA as well. I had a similar issue with another tax program (not FreeTaxUSA), and I had to manually enter my cumulative basis in my Traditional IRA from previous years' non-deductible contributions. There should be a screen somewhere that asks for "Your basis in traditional IRAs" or something similar. Also, look out for the distribution code in Box 7 of your 1099-R. It should typically be code "7" for a normal IRA distribution. If it's coded differently, that might be confusing the software.
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Jade Santiago
ā¢I checked and my 1099-R does have code 7 in Box 7. This is my first year doing a backdoor Roth so I don't have any previous basis - it was just a contribution and immediate conversion. I'm going to try completing the entire return and see if it fixes itself in the review stage like others suggested. If that doesn't work, I might just have to call their support line.
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Aurora St.Pierre
ā¢That's good that you have code 7 and no previous basis to worry about! Definitely try the complete-and-review approach. One last thing to check - make sure you're entering the contribution as a 2023 contribution (assuming that's when you made it) and not as a prior year contribution. Sometimes that distinction can trip up the software too. Let us know if it works out! These backdoor Roth issues are so common but so frustrating.
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Grace Johnson
One thing nobody mentioned - did you check if you have any other Traditional IRA money from previous years? The Pro-Rata rule could be kicking in. If you had, say, a rollover IRA or any other traditional IRA money beyond what you contributed for the backdoor, you can't just convert the non-deductible portion tax-free. The conversion gets taxed proportionally. FreeTaxUSA might actually be calculating correctly if you have other IRA assets!
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Jayden Reed
ā¢This is an excellent point! The pro-rata rule is the downfall of many backdoor Roth attempts. If you have ANY other money in ANY traditional IRA accounts (including SEP IRAs and SIMPLE IRAs), the backdoor strategy gets complicated fast.
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