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20 Just want to point out that everyone seems to be assuming tax rates won't change much. But look at the national debt... over $31 trillion! Tax rates in the 1970s were WAY higher than today. Top marginal rate was like 70% at one point! I'm putting everything in Roth accounts even though I'm in the 32% bracket now. I'd rather pay 32% today than risk 50%+ rates when I retire in 30 years. The government's gotta pay that debt somehow, and I'm betting it'll be through higher taxes, not spending cuts.
24 That's a valid concern, but historically speaking tax rates on retirees haven't changed dramatically. Also remember that with Traditional 401(k), you're saving at your MARGINAL tax rate (your highest bracket) but will withdraw in retirement filling up from the BOTTOM brackets first. So even if all rates go up 10%, you're still likely coming out ahead with Traditional if you're a high earner now. You'd need massive tax increases targeted specifically at retirees to make the math work out in favor of Roth for most high earners.
Great discussion everyone! As someone who switched from Roth to Traditional 401(k) after getting promoted to a higher tax bracket, I can share my experience. The math really does work out for Traditional when you're in those higher brackets. I was initially hesitant because like the OP, I was worried about future tax rates. But here's what convinced me: even if tax rates increase across the board, I'm still likely to be in a lower bracket in retirement than my current 35% marginal rate. My financial advisor helped me run the numbers - if I max out my Traditional 401(k) at $22,500, I save about $7,875 in taxes immediately. That's money I can invest in a taxable brokerage account right now. Even accounting for capital gains tax on that separate investment, the Traditional route comes out ahead in most realistic scenarios. The key insight was realizing that in retirement, I won't need my full current income. No more mortgage payments, kids will be independent, and I won't be saving 20%+ of my income for retirement anymore. So even with some tax rate increases, my effective rate in retirement should be lower than today's marginal rate. That said, I do put some money in a Roth IRA for diversification, but the bulk goes Traditional 401(k) for the immediate tax arbitrage opportunity.
This is really helpful! I'm curious about one thing though - when you mention investing the tax savings in a taxable brokerage account, how do you handle the fact that those investments will be subject to capital gains tax? Doesn't that eat into some of the advantage of the Traditional 401(k) approach? I'm trying to figure out if the math still works out favorably even after accounting for the additional tax drag on the separate brokerage investments.
Great question @Nalani Liu! You're absolutely right that capital gains tax does eat into some of the advantage, but the math still works out in most cases for high earners. Here's how I think about it: Let's say I save $7,875 in taxes from my Traditional 401(k) contribution and invest that in index funds. Even if I pay 15% long-term capital gains on the growth (or 20% if I'm in the highest bracket), I'm still starting with a much larger initial investment base thanks to that tax savings. The key is that capital gains rates are generally lower than ordinary income tax rates. So I'm avoiding 35% tax now, then potentially paying 15-20% capital gains later on just the growth portion. Plus, I have control over when to realize those gains for tax optimization. My advisor showed me that even accounting for capital gains tax, the Traditional + separate investing approach beats Roth in most scenarios unless ordinary tax rates increase by more than about 8-10 percentage points across the board. The immediate tax arbitrage opportunity is just too good to pass up when you're in those higher brackets. Of course, this assumes you actually invest the tax savings rather than spending it - discipline is key!
I just wanted to add: if you have a home office deduction normally, make sure claiming this travel doesn't contradict your usual business location. My accountant said if your business is primarily based at your home office, but then you try to claim another location (like your vacation spot) was necessary for business, the IRS might question why you couldn't do the work from your normal office. In your case, client emergencies are a good justification, but just something to be aware of.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is making sure you separate your business activities from any personal activities on each day. The IRS looks at whether each day was primarily business or personal, not just the overall trip percentage. If you worked 8 hours but then went out to dinner or walked on the beach for 2 hours, that's still considered a business day. Also, document not just your work hours but the necessity of doing the work from that location. Client emergencies that required immediate attention are perfect justification - save any urgent emails or messages that show you HAD to work, not just chose to work. This helps establish that the work was truly necessary and not just convenient. Consider getting a letter from your main clients confirming the urgent nature of the work during those dates. This external documentation can be invaluable if you're ever questioned about the legitimacy of the business purpose.
This is really helpful advice! I'm new to tracking business expenses and hadn't thought about the day-by-day analysis. When you mention getting letters from clients, should those be formal statements or would saved email chains showing the urgency be enough? Also, if a client called me multiple times during the trip for crisis management, would phone records help document that necessity? I want to make sure I'm covering all my bases since this is my first time dealing with mixed personal/business travel.
I filed on January 29th as soon as the IRS started accepting returns, and my direct deposit hit my account on February 8th - so exactly 10 days. My sister filed on February 6th and just got hers yesterday (Feb 14th), so 8 days for her. We both have pretty simple returns though, just W-2 income and standard deductions. Seems like they're moving pretty quickly this year compared to the last few!
Dang that's fast! Did either of you claim any credits like earned income or child tax credit? I filed Jan 31 with those credits and still nothing :/
Neither of us claimed EITC or Child Tax Credit, which definitely explains the faster processing. Those credits trigger automatic additional review by law. If you claimed either of those credits, there's a mandatory holding period that prevents the IRS from issuing refunds before mid-February, regardless of when you filed. It's part of the PATH Act to prevent fraud. You should see movement on your refund soon if you haven't already!
I filed my taxes on February 5th with direct deposit and got my refund exactly 7 days later on February 12th! I was shocked at how fast it was - definitely much quicker than the usual 21-day estimate they give you. One thing that might have helped speed things up for me was double-checking all my banking information before submitting. I've heard horror stories about people having to wait weeks longer because of typos in their routing or account numbers. Also used the same bank account I've used for the past few years, so that might have avoided any additional verification steps. The "Where's My Refund" tool was super helpful too - it updated to "Refund Approved" on day 5 and then "Refund Sent" on day 6, with the money hitting my account the next business day. Definitely recommend checking that instead of just waiting and wondering!
One important thing nobody's mentioned: if you're getting a state refund too, those timelines vary WILDLY depending on which state! My federal came in 9 days but my California refund took almost 6 weeks. Meanwhile my sister in Colorado got her state refund before her federal. Just something to keep in mind if you're waiting on both.
I filed my NY state return on March 15th and got my state refund on April 2nd, so about 18 days. Not terrible but definitely slower than my federal which came in 10 days. NY has been pretty consistent with that 2-3 week timeline from what I've seen with friends and family. Their online tracking system is actually pretty good though - you can check status at tax.ny.gov and it gives you real updates unlike some other states that barely tell you anything.
That's really helpful info about NY state timing! I'm actually in a similar boat - filed federal through TurboTax last week and also did my NY state return. Good to know the 2-3 week timeline is pretty standard for NY. I'll definitely check out that tax.ny.gov tracking system you mentioned. It's reassuring to hear from someone who actually went through the process recently rather than just relying on the generic timelines they post online.
Caden Turner
When I got married, we both kept our W4s at "single" rate for the first year just to be safe. Yes, we overwitheld and got a big refund, but I'd rather get a refund than owe! In your situation with two decent incomes, definitely check that box 2c at minimum.
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McKenzie Shade
ā¢This is actually not great financial advice. Intentionally overwithholding means you're giving the government an interest-free loan all year. Better to get your withholding right and invest the difference.
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Diego Fisher
I went through this exact same thing when I got married two years ago! That jump in take-home pay is totally normal but can be scary. Here's what worked for me: First, don't panic - you're not going to owe a "giant" tax bill, but you'll probably owe something if you don't adjust. With your combined income of around $128k, you're likely hitting higher tax brackets together than the withholding tables account for. I'd strongly recommend using the IRS Tax Withholding Estimator (it's free on irs.gov) rather than just checking box 2(c). Yes, it's a bit tedious, but it gave me much more accurate results. You'll need both of your recent pay stubs and last year's tax returns. The estimator will tell you exactly how much extra to withhold on line 4(c) of your W4, or whether checking box 2(c) is sufficient. In my case, we needed an extra $85 per paycheck withheld beyond what box 2(c) would have done. Also, since you just changed this a few weeks ago, you have time to adjust if needed. Better to spend 30 minutes with the calculator now than get surprised next April!
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