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Has anyone dealt with the potential penalties if you mess up Form 3520? I'm in a similar situation with foreign gifts and I'm terrified of getting something wrong. I've heard the penalties can be like 25% of the unreported amount??
The penalties for Form 3520 are indeed serious, but don't let fear paralyze you! Yes, the penalty can be up to 25% of the unreported amount, but as Natasha mentioned, there's a reasonable cause exception if you can demonstrate good faith effort to comply. For your situation, here are some practical steps to minimize penalty risk: 1) File on time - even if you're not 100% certain about every detail, filing by the deadline shows good faith 2) Keep detailed documentation of all your foreign transactions and your decision-making process 3) Be consistent in your reporting approach (like using December 31st for aggregate amounts) 4) If you discover an error later, file an amended return promptly The IRS is generally more lenient with first-time filers who make honest mistakes but show they tried to comply correctly. Given that you're asking questions and being careful about the details, you're already demonstrating the kind of good faith effort that could qualify for reasonable cause relief if needed. Consider consulting with a tax professional who specializes in international tax if the amounts are substantial - the cost of professional help is usually much less than potential penalties!
This is really helpful advice, Carmen! As someone who's been stressing about getting Form 3520 perfect, your point about filing on time even with some uncertainty is reassuring. I've been paralyzed thinking I need to have every single detail 100% correct before submitting, but you're right that showing good faith effort is important too. The documentation point is especially useful - I'm going to create a detailed spreadsheet now tracking all my foreign transactions and the reasoning behind how I'm reporting each one. That way if the IRS has questions later, I can show exactly how I made my decisions. Thanks for the practical steps!
Quick question - does anyone know if taking a job that's work-from-home but with a company based more than 50 miles away would qualify for this exclusion? My situation is different from OP's international move, but I'm wondering if the "50 mile" rule would apply even if I'm not physically relocating my home.
Unfortunately, that wouldn't qualify. The exclusion is based on you actually needing to move your residence due to the job change. The 50-mile test is measuring the distance between your old workplace and your new workplace, not the location of the company's headquarters. If you're working from home and not physically relocating, you wouldn't meet the criteria for a work-related move, even if your employer is located more than 50 miles away.
I'm dealing with a similar situation but with some additional complications. My company is relocating me from Denver to London, and I've lived in my house for only 20 months. Like you, I also have a rental portion - I converted my garage into a studio apartment that I've been renting out for the past year. From what I've researched, your international move definitely qualifies for the partial exclusion. The IRS considers any work-related move where your new job location is at least 50 miles farther from your old home than your previous job location was - and international moves clearly exceed this threshold. One thing I learned that might help you: when calculating the business use portion for the rental, make sure you're using the time period that the space was actually used for business purposes, not just the square footage. Since you mentioned renting the basement for the full 18 months you lived there, that would affect the allocation. Also, keep detailed records of your company's transfer documentation, your employment contract for the Singapore position, and any relocation assistance they're providing. The IRS may want to see evidence that this was truly a work-necessitated move rather than a personal choice to relocate. Have you considered consulting with a tax professional who specializes in international relocations? The interplay between the partial exclusion and international tax implications can get complex, especially if you'll be subject to foreign tax obligations on the sale.
Thanks for sharing your experience, Connor! Your point about documenting the time period for business use is really helpful - I hadn't thought about that distinction. Since we've been renting the basement for the full 18 months, that definitely affects how we need to calculate things. The international tax implications are something I'm definitely concerned about. Do you know if there are any special considerations for the timing of the sale relative to when we actually move to Singapore? We're planning to sell before we relocate, but I'm wondering if that affects our qualification for the partial exclusion at all. Also, did you end up finding a tax professional who specializes in international moves? That sounds like it might be worth the investment given the complexity of our situation.
From personal experience with a similar situation, don't just call the general IRS number - specifically ask for the Revenue Officer assigned to your case (should be listed on the notice). They have more authority to help than the regular phone representatives. Also, consider applying for an Installment Agreement while you sort this out, even if you plan to dispute the amount. This can prevent immediate levy actions while you gather documentation to prove the correct amount. Form 9465 is what you'd use for that. Being proactive is key - even a small payment shows good faith and may help with penalty abatement later.
Dylan, I'm sorry you're going through this stress! The CP504 is definitely serious, but the good news is that you still have time to resolve this before any actual levy action occurs. Based on your description, it sounds like the IRS is treating you as if you received all $113K in business income for the entire year ($40K + $73K), when you actually only participated for the first quarter and then sold your share. This is a common issue when business partnerships aren't properly documented with the IRS. Here's what I'd recommend as your immediate action plan: 1. **Call the IRS tomorrow** using the number on your CP504 notice and request a temporary hold on collection activities while you gather documentation 2. **Gather key documents**: Your sale agreement from March 2017, bank statements showing the $9K you received, any profit/loss statements from those first 3 months, and documentation of when you stopped being involved in the business 3. **File an amended return (Form 1040X)** for 2017 showing your correct income - likely just the portion you earned in those first few months plus the $9K sale proceeds 4. **Consider getting help** - this involves business income allocation and partnership tax issues that can be tricky to navigate alone The fact that you were only making $3-5K from your job and the business was short-term makes it very unlikely you'd owe $24K. Stay calm, act quickly, and document everything!
As someone who works in corporate finance, PLEASE don't submit fake documentation. We actually do check these things, and people get caught more often than you'd think. I've seen people terminated for expense fraud over amounts as small as $50. Most expense systems now have built-in fraud detection that looks for patterns and irregularities. Using a restaurant's tax ID inappropriately could also potentially trigger an audit flag.
Really? I figured with so many expense reports coming through, most companies wouldn't bother checking each one carefully. Do you have automated systems that flag suspicious activity or do you manually review everything?
We use a combination of both automated systems and manual reviews. Our expense management software automatically flags receipts that have duplicate amounts, suspicious formatting, or tax IDs that don't match the vendor name. We also randomly audit a percentage of all submissions. The automated system is surprisingly good at catching fake receipts - it can detect things like inconsistent fonts, unusual formatting, or receipts that look too "perfect." Plus, if someone uses a real restaurant's tax ID on a fake receipt, that creates a paper trail that can be discovered during tax reconciliation. @cfe58c2efb8d seriously, just talk to your manager about the deadline. Most reasonable managers would rather extend it or find another solution than deal with the HR nightmare of terminating someone for expense fraud.
I completely agree with everyone here - creating fake receipts is absolutely not worth the risk. As someone who's dealt with IRS audits, I can tell you that expense fraud can have consequences far beyond just losing your job. If your company gets audited and fraudulent expenses are discovered, it can trigger additional scrutiny on your personal tax filings too. Instead of risking your career and potentially legal issues, here are some immediate legitimate options: 1. Order groceries online for pickup/delivery before the deadline 2. Buy meal prep ingredients in bulk 3. Purchase from restaurant delivery apps and freeze the food 4. Ask if the budget can be used for team meals or office catering The key is to make actual purchases with real receipts. Even if you end up with more food than you immediately need, it's infinitely better than creating fraudulent documentation. Your company's accounting team will thank you for being honest, and you'll sleep better at night knowing you handled it properly.
Kirsuktow DarkBlade
What tax software are people using that helps with tracking gifts? I've been trying to figure out how to document these types of transactions.
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Abigail bergen
โขI use TurboTax Premier which has a section for gift tracking, though gifts under the annual exclusion don't actually need to be reported unless you're splitting gifts with a spouse. For the actual documentation, I keep a simple spreadsheet with dates, amounts, and copies of any transfer confirmations.
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Hunter Hampton
I'd be really careful about this arrangement, especially with the IRS's increased scrutiny on family transactions. Even if you separate the timing by several months, if there's any documentation (texts, emails, verbal agreements) suggesting these gifts were coordinated, it could still be viewed as a step transaction. A safer approach might be to simply sell some of your appreciated stock directly, pay the capital gains tax, and keep things straightforward. Yes, you'll owe taxes, but you'll have certainty and won't risk an audit challenge. Alternatively, if you need liquidity, consider taking a margin loan against your stock positions - you get access to cash without triggering a taxable event, though there are interest costs and margin risks to consider. The potential tax savings from your proposed strategy probably aren't worth the audit risk and potential penalties if the IRS decides this was a disguised sale rather than legitimate gifts.
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