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Form 8843 filing as Non-Resident Alien after 5 years on F-1 student visa - what should the "statement" include?

I'm an international student with an F-1 visa trying to figure out my tax status for 2024. During my first five years in the US, I was easily considered a non-resident alien for tax purposes since those days didn't count for the substantial presence test. Now I'm in my 6th year on F-1, and technically I would be classified as a resident alien, but I want to use "The Closer Connection Exception to the Substantial Presence Test for Foreign Students" (which is different from the regular closer connection exception for non-students) to still file as a non-resident. The IRS documentation mentions specific regulations for these factors, and ยง7701(b)(5)(E) includes this provision: >Limitation on students > >For any calendar year after the 5th calendar year for which an individual was an exempt individual under clause (ii) or (iii) of subparagraph (A), such individual shall not be treated as an exempt individual by reason of clause (iii) of subparagraph (A), **unless such individual establishes to the satisfaction of the** **Secretary** **that such individual does not intend to permanently reside in the** **United States** **and that such individual meets the requirements of subparagraph (D)(ii).** My issue is with line 12 on Form 8843 which states: "*You must provide sufficient facts on an attached statement that you do not intend to reside permanently in the United States*" I've spent hours researching online and asked multiple tax preparation services (none knew the answer), but I can't find examples or guidelines for what this statement should include. What exactly should this statement look like? Is it just a letter explaining why I satisfy the criteria with my signature? What evidence do I need to include? Any examples would be super helpful!

Muhammad Hobbs

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Does anyone know if we have to file Form 8843 electronically or if it has to be mailed in? I've been using TurboTax for my regular returns but I'm not sure if they support attachments for the statement required for line 12.

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Noland Curtis

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Form 8843 has to be mailed in if you're attaching a statement. I tried to do it electronically last year through TurboTax and couldn't figure out how to include the statement. Ended up having to print and mail the whole package.

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Daniela Rossi

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I just went through this process myself as a 6th year F-1 student. After reading all the helpful advice here, I wanted to add that when drafting your statement, it's important to be very specific about your ties to your home country rather than just making general statements. For example, instead of just saying "I have family back home," I wrote something like "My parents and two siblings reside in [home country], where I maintain close relationships and visit annually during academic breaks." I also mentioned specific details like maintaining a bank account there, owning property jointly with family members, and having professional licensing that's only valid in my home country. The key is demonstrating that your life is genuinely centered in your home country despite your temporary presence in the US for education. I also made sure to mention my specific graduation timeline and concrete post-graduation plans (job offer, research position, etc.) to show that my stay in the US has a definite end date. My return was accepted without issues, so being detailed and specific in the statement definitely seems to work well.

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Chloe Martin

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This is really solid advice about being specific! I'm currently preparing my statement for year 6 and was wondering - did you include anything about your academic program itself? Like mentioning that you're in a degree program with a specific end date, or that you're on Optional Practical Training (OPT) which is temporary? I'm trying to figure out if those details help establish the temporary nature of my stay or if I should focus more on the home country ties you mentioned.

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Gabriel Freeman

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If you're still having trouble with ID.me recovery, you can also try calling the IRS directly at 1-800-908-9946. They can sometimes help you access your account information over the phone if you verify your identity with them. It's usually a long wait but might be worth it if the other methods aren't working for you.

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Freya Ross

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That IRS number is super helpful! Didn't know they could help with ID.me issues directly. Definitely gonna try this if the Twitter DM thing doesn't work out. Thanks for sharing! ๐Ÿ™

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Jace Caspullo

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Had this exact same problem last year! Here's what finally worked for me: 1) Clear your browser cache completely, 2) Try using a different browser or incognito mode, 3) Make sure you're using the exact same device/browser you originally signed up with if possible. ID.me is really picky about device recognition. Also if you have multiple email addresses, double check you're using the right one - I was trying to recover with the wrong email for weeks! ๐Ÿคฆโ€โ™€๏ธ

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Mei Lin

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Has anyone here actually read the actual Australia-USA tax treaty text? I did (don't recommend unless you enjoy bureaucratic torture) and found Article 7 and Article 22 most relevant to your situation. The treaty basically says business profits are taxable primarily where you're a resident (Australia in your case), BUT if you have a "permanent establishment" in the US (like an office), the US can tax profits attributable to that establishment. Then Australia gives you credit for US tax paid. The GST issue is separate from the treaty though - that's purely Australian domestic law. Once you hit that $75k threshold from worldwide turnover, you're in the GST system for Australian sales only.

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Liam Fitzgerald

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This is good info but the "permanent establishment" part can be really tricky. Does using a coworking space occasionally in the US count? What about staying with friends but working from their place for a month?

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Jabari-Jo

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I've been through a similar situation with dual Australia-US income, and here's what I learned after consulting with a tax specialist who focuses on the Australia-USA treaty: The key thing to understand is that as an Australian tax resident, you're caught in Australia's worldwide taxation net. This means: 1. Yes, you must declare ALL income (including your $25k USD) to the ATO 2. Your GST registration is triggered by worldwide business turnover, so you'll need to register once you hit $75k combined 3. You cannot choose to be a US tax resident just for tax purposes - residency rules are strict and based on where you actually live and have ties However, the treaty does protect you from true double taxation through the foreign income tax offset system. You'll file in both countries but get credit in Australia for legitimate US taxes paid. One important note about permanent establishment that @Mei Lin mentioned - for consulting work, this usually requires a fixed place of business or staying more than 183 days. Working from clients' offices or coworking spaces temporarily typically doesn't create a PE. My advice: keep meticulous records of where each dollar was earned and what expenses relate to each jurisdiction. The ATO is getting increasingly sophisticated about tracking international income flows, especially with US reporting agreements in place. Consider getting professional advice specific to your situation - the treaty has many nuances that can significantly impact your tax liability.

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StarStrider

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This is incredibly helpful, thank you! The permanent establishment clarification really puts my mind at ease - I was worried that even short client visits might create tax complications. One follow-up question about the foreign income tax offset: if I end up paying more tax to the US than I would have owed Australia on that same income, do I get a refund for the difference? Or does the offset only work up to what Australia would have charged me? Also, you mentioned the ATO is getting more sophisticated about tracking international income - should I be proactively documenting the source of my US income beyond just bank statements? I'm thinking contracts, invoices, proof of where the work was performed, etc.?

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Since nobody mentioned this yet - you should seriously consider whether your LLC is being treated as a corporation or disregarded entity for US tax purposes. If you never filed Form 8832 to elect corporate treatment, a single-member foreign-owned LLC is by default treated as a disregarded entity. This distinction matters because filing requirements are different. A disregarded entity owned by a foreign person still needs to file Form 5472, but attached to a pro forma Form 1120 (not a full tax return). Understanding this might help you file the correct forms now.

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Kara Yoshida

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Can confirm this is important. I made the mistake of filing a full 1120 for my disregarded entity LLC when all I needed was the pro forma version with the 5472. Ended up having to amend everything which was a huge pain.

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I went through almost the exact same situation with my Delaware LLC that I abandoned after formation. The stress and panic you're feeling is completely understandable, but there is hope! Here's what I learned from my experience: Yes, you do need to file Form 5472 and a pro forma Form 1120 for each year, even with zero activity. The key is acting quickly now and putting together a strong reasonable cause statement. For your reasonable cause letter, emphasize these points: 1) You're a non-US resident who was genuinely unaware of the filing requirements, 2) The LLC had absolutely no business activity or transactions, 3) You're coming forward voluntarily to correct the situation, and 4) This was an honest mistake, not willful non-compliance. I filed my delinquent returns with detailed reasonable cause statements and requested penalty abatement. While I can't guarantee your outcome will be the same, the IRS did accept my reasonable cause and waived most of the penalties. The fact that your LLC truly had no activity works strongly in your favor. Don't let the $25,000 penalty amount scare you into paralysis - that's the maximum statutory penalty, but the IRS has discretion to reduce or waive penalties when there's reasonable cause. Get those returns filed ASAP with solid documentation of your circumstances.

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Liam McConnell

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@Katherine Shultz Thank you so much for sharing your experience - it s'exactly what I needed to hear! Your success story gives me real hope that this nightmare might actually have a reasonable solution. I m'definitely going to move forward with filing the delinquent returns and putting together a strong reasonable cause statement based on your advice. Did you include any specific documentation with your reasonable cause letter beyond just the written explanation? I m'wondering if I should gather proof that the LLC truly had no activity like (bank statements showing no account was ever opened, etc. or) if a detailed written statement was sufficient in your case. Also, when you say the IRS waived "most of the penalties -" were there still some penalties you had to pay, or did they eliminate everything? Just trying to set realistic expectations for what I might be facing even in a best-case scenario.

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@Katherine Shultz Your experience gives me so much hope! I ve'been losing sleep over this for weeks. Quick question - when you filed your delinquent returns, did you mail them or submit electronically? I m'wondering what the fastest way to get them processed is since I want to show good faith in resolving this quickly. Also, did you receive any immediate acknowledgment from the IRS that they received your filings, or was it radio silence until they made their penalty decision?

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Natalie Khan

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This is exactly the kind of situation that keeps me up at night as a small business owner! Thank you Justin for sharing your story - it's both terrifying and reassuring to know I'm not the only one who's made these kinds of mistakes. What really stands out to me from all these responses is how much the IRS seems to value good faith efforts and honest communication. It sounds like being proactive and documenting everything you tried to do right is almost as important as the actual compliance itself. I'm bookmarking this thread because the advice about First Time Penalty Abatement, getting extensions on deadlines, and even the deductibility of backup withholding payments are all things I never would have known about. It's amazing how much critical tax information isn't readily available to small business owners when we need it most. For anyone else reading this in a similar situation - it seems like the key takeaways are: don't ignore the notices, document your good faith efforts, ask specifically for First Time Penalty Abatement, and don't be afraid to get help whether that's through professional services or just getting connected to the right IRS representative. This community is incredibly valuable for sharing these real-world experiences!

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Savannah Glover

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I completely agree with everything you've said, Natalie! As someone new to this community, I'm blown away by how helpful everyone has been in sharing their real experiences with Form 945 issues. What really strikes me is how common this problem seems to be for new business owners, yet there's so little clear guidance available when you're starting out. The fact that multiple people here have dealt with the exact same situation and found workable solutions gives me hope that there are ways through these tax compliance nightmares. I'm definitely taking notes on all the specific strategies mentioned - the First Time Penalty Abatement option alone could save thousands for people in Justin's situation. It's also reassuring to hear that the IRS can actually be reasonable when you approach them proactively rather than trying to hide from the problem. Thanks to everyone who shared their stories and advice. This is exactly the kind of practical, real-world information that small business owners desperately need but rarely find until we're already in trouble!

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Oliver Schmidt

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As someone who's been lurking in this community for a while but never posted, I felt compelled to share after reading through all these responses. I went through almost the identical situation with Form 945 backup withholding about 18 months ago, and I wish I had found advice like this back then! What I want to emphasize is that the emotional toll of these tax issues can be just as challenging as the financial impact. I remember feeling like a complete failure as a business owner and losing sleep for weeks. But the reality is that these compliance gaps are incredibly common for new businesses - you're definitely not alone in this, Justin. One thing I learned that hasn't been mentioned yet is to keep detailed records of ALL your interactions with the IRS throughout this process. Dates, times, names of agents you speak with, reference numbers - everything. I had to call back multiple times during my case, and having that information made each subsequent call much smoother because agents could see the history of our discussions. Also, while the financial aspect is scary, remember that small businesses survive these situations all the time. The IRS has programs specifically designed to help businesses get into compliance, not to shut them down. Focus on the solutions people have outlined here rather than the worst-case scenarios your mind might be creating. You've already taken the hardest step by asking for help and being proactive about addressing this. That puts you way ahead of business owners who just ignore IRS notices and hope they go away!

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