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I went through this exact problem last year! Here's what I learned after a lot of mistakes: For multiple jobs, the withholding is calculated as if each job is your only job, then it adds extra to account for the higher tax bracket. So yes, your withholding will be higher. But option C usually results in OVER-withholding. Try this instead: On your HIGHER paying job, check the box for multiple jobs. On your LOWER paying job's W-4, don't check any box in step 2. This worked better for me and stopped the massive overwithholding.
I had a similar situation with multiple jobs and excessive withholding. What really helped me was understanding that when you check Step 2 Option C, the system essentially treats each job as if it's your highest-paying position and calculates withholding accordingly. This creates a "double penalty" where both jobs withhold at higher rates. Here's what worked for me: I used the IRS Tax Withholding Estimator (it's free on their website) and entered information from both jobs. It showed me exactly how much should be withheld total, then I was able to adjust my W-4s accordingly. In my case, I ended up putting a specific dollar amount in Step 4(b) on my higher-paying job's W-4 to reduce withholding, while keeping the lower-paying job's W-4 at standard withholding. The key is to think of your total tax situation across both jobs rather than treating each W-4 separately. You're probably going to get a huge refund if you keep the current setup, which means you're essentially giving the government an interest-free loan all year.
This is exactly the kind of clear explanation I needed! The "double penalty" concept makes so much sense - I was wondering why the withholding felt so extreme. I'm definitely going to try the IRS Tax Withholding Estimator this weekend when I have time to sit down with both my paystubs. Quick question though - when you put that specific dollar amount in Step 4(b), did you have to recalculate it every time your pay changed, or does it stay pretty consistent? I sometimes get overtime at my main job so I'm wondering if I'll need to keep adjusting the W-4 throughout the year.
Great question about the overtime! In my experience, the dollar amount in Step 4(b) stays pretty stable even with occasional overtime. The withholding system automatically adjusts the percentage based on your actual paycheck amount, so when you get overtime, it naturally withholds a bit more from that higher check. I only had to recalculate once during the year when I got a significant raise at my main job (about 15% increase). For regular overtime here and there, the original calculation held up well. The IRS estimator actually accounts for some variability in income when it gives you the recommendation. My advice would be to use your regular pay amounts (without overtime) when doing the initial calculation, then monitor your first few paychecks after the change. If you notice you're still overwithholding significantly even with the adjustment, you can always run the estimator again and fine-tune it. It's much easier to make small adjustments than to deal with a massive refund or tax bill later!
This is such a helpful discussion! I'm in a similar situation where I'm considering the mega backdoor Roth but was really concerned about the 5-year holding periods. Based on what everyone's shared here, it sounds like the key is understanding exactly what your specific 401(k) plan allows. The distinction between rolling to a Roth IRA (with multiple 5-year clocks) versus doing an in-plan conversion to Roth 401(k) (single 5-year clock but limited access) is crucial for planning. One thing I'm still unclear on - if you do the in-plan conversion route, can you later roll that Roth 401(k) balance to a Roth IRA when you leave your employer? And would that trigger another 5-year waiting period, or would it maintain the timeline from the original conversion? Also wondering if anyone has experience with plans that allow both options - seems like you could potentially use the in-plan conversion for amounts you won't need access to, and direct Roth IRA rollovers for amounts you might need sooner (even with the 5-year wait).
Great questions! When you roll a Roth 401(k) to a Roth IRA after leaving your employer, the converted amounts maintain their original conversion dates for the 5-year rule purposes. So if you did an in-plan conversion 3 years ago, you'd only need to wait 2 more years (not restart the clock) once it's in the Roth IRA. Your strategy of using both options is actually pretty smart! You could do in-plan conversions for money you definitely won't need for 5+ years, and direct Roth IRA rollovers for amounts you might need access to sooner. Just keep in mind that with the direct rollover approach, you'd still have that 5-year wait per conversion batch. The main thing to watch is whether your plan allows frequent enough in-service distributions to make the direct rollover route practical. If you're limited to quarterly rollovers like CyberSamurai mentioned, that might push you more toward the in-plan conversion route.
This thread has been incredibly helpful! I've been putting off the mega backdoor Roth strategy because I was confused about the withdrawal rules, but now I understand the key distinctions. It sounds like the optimal approach really depends on your specific situation and plan features. For someone like me who might need access to some funds in the next 3-4 years, the in-plan conversion to Roth 401(k) seems more appealing since it's just one 5-year clock rather than multiple ones. One follow-up question though - for those who've actually implemented this strategy, how do you keep track of all the different conversion dates and amounts? Especially if you're doing regular conversions throughout the year, it seems like it could get pretty complex to manage for tax and withdrawal planning purposes. Also, has anyone run into issues with their payroll system properly handling the after-tax contribution elections? I've heard some companies struggle with the payroll setup for this.
Great questions about the practical implementation! For tracking conversion dates and amounts, I've found it helpful to maintain a simple spreadsheet with columns for conversion date, amount, and the date when each batch becomes penalty-free (5 years later). Most brokerages also provide year-end tax documents that break down your conversion history by tax year. Regarding payroll systems - yes, this can definitely be a pain point! Some companies use older payroll systems that weren't designed for after-tax 401(k) contributions. I'd recommend reaching out to your HR or benefits team early to confirm they can handle the setup. In some cases, you might need to work with them to ensure the contributions are properly coded as "after-tax" rather than pre-tax, since the payroll system needs to distinguish between the two for tax reporting purposes. Also worth noting that some plans require you to max out your regular 401(k) contributions before allowing after-tax contributions, so make sure you understand your plan's specific sequencing rules.
Something that hasn't been mentioned yet - if your employer is reimbursing EXACTLY at the IRS rate ($0.62/mile for 2022), it's what's called an "accountable plan" and that's why it's not taxable. But if they paid you MORE than the IRS rate, the excess would be taxable. For example, if they paid you $0.70/mile, the $0.62 would be tax-free but the extra $0.08/mile would be added to your taxable income. Just something to be aware of if your mileage rate ever changes!
What about if they pay LESS than the IRS rate? My delivery company only pays $0.40/mile which definitely doesn't cover my actual expenses.
If they're paying you less than the IRS standard rate ($0.40 vs $0.62), that $0.40 is still non-taxable as a business expense reimbursement. However, you might be able to deduct the difference on your taxes if you're a 1099 contractor. For W-2 employees, unfortunately you can't deduct the unreimbursed portion anymore due to the tax law changes. You're essentially subsidizing your employer by covering $0.22/mile of business expenses out of your own pocket with after-tax dollars. Definitely worth discussing with your employer about increasing the rate to at least match the IRS standard!
This is a great explanation of how mileage reimbursement should work! I'm an accountant who handles payroll for several small delivery companies, and what your employer is doing is absolutely correct and follows IRS guidelines perfectly. The key thing to understand is that mileage reimbursement at the standard IRS rate ($0.67/mile for 2024, by the way - it increases almost every year) is considered a business expense reimbursement, not income. This is why it's excluded from your taxable wages and added back after taxes are calculated. Your employer is essentially saying: "We owe you $457 in wages (taxable) plus we owe you $186 to reimburse your business vehicle expenses (non-taxable)." This separation is required by the IRS to maintain the non-taxable status of the mileage reimbursement. If they just paid you $643 as regular wages, you'd pay Social Security, Medicare, federal, and state taxes on the full amount. Then you'd have to try to deduct your vehicle expenses at tax time - which isn't even possible anymore for most W-2 employees. You're definitely coming out ahead with their current method! One tip: make sure you're keeping track of your actual vehicle expenses anyway. While you can't deduct them, it's good to know if that $0.62/mile is actually covering your real costs or if you need to negotiate for a higher rate.
This is such a helpful breakdown! As someone new to gig work, I've been completely lost trying to understand all this tax stuff. One question - you mentioned the rate is $0.67/mile for 2024, but the original poster's company is paying $0.62/mile. Does that mean they should ask their employer to update the rate, or is it okay for companies to use the previous year's rate? Also, when you say to track actual vehicle expenses anyway, what kinds of things should I be keeping records of? Just gas receipts or other stuff too?
I'm dealing with a similar situation but from a slightly different angle - my tax preparer provided me with what they claimed was a "complete copy" but it was missing several schedules and supporting forms. When I questioned this, they said those weren't part of the "standard package" and I'd need to pay extra for the full documentation. This thread has been incredibly helpful! I had no idea about Form 14157 for filing complaints against preparers. I'm also really intrigued by the taxr.ai suggestion - it sounds like it could help me figure out exactly what schedules should have been included with my return. One thing I'd add for anyone in this situation: document everything. I started keeping a log of every phone call, email, and visit attempt with dates and what was said. If you do end up having to file a complaint or escalate this, having a clear timeline of their non-compliance will strengthen your case significantly. Thanks to everyone who shared their experiences and solutions - this community is a lifesaver when dealing with uncooperative tax professionals!
This is exactly what happened to me a few years back! My preparer gave me what looked like a complete return but was actually missing Schedule A (itemized deductions) and Schedule C (business income). When I caught it and asked for the missing pieces, they tried to charge me another $50 for "additional documentation." Your advice about documenting everything is spot-on. I wish I had done that from the beginning. What really helped me was when I finally got through to the IRS (using one of those callback services mentioned earlier in this thread) and the agent actually walked me through what forms should be included based on the line items on my 1040. Armed with that official guidance, I was able to go back to my preparer with specific demands. The taxr.ai tool that several people mentioned would have been a game-changer for me - having an independent analysis of what my return should contain would have given me so much more confidence when confronting the preparer about missing schedules. Definitely check it out!
I'm new to this community but wanted to share what worked for me in a similar situation last year. I had a preparer who kept dodging my requests for my tax return copy, and what finally got results was sending a certified letter (not just email) with very specific language. I wrote something like: "This is a formal written demand for a complete copy of all tax documents you prepared and filed on my behalf for tax year [YEAR], including Form 1040 and all supporting schedules and forms. This request is made pursuant to IRS regulations requiring paid preparers to provide clients with copies of their tax returns. I expect to receive these documents within 7 business days of receipt of this letter." I sent it certified mail so I had proof they received it. Within 3 days, they called me to schedule a pickup time. Sometimes you need that paper trail to show you're serious about escalating if they don't comply. The key is being specific about what you want and referencing the IRS requirement - it shows you know your rights and aren't just going to go away quietly. Good luck getting your documents!
Anthony Young
Just a quick tip - if you're planning to use Form 4506 to request your complete return from the IRS, be aware that it can take a LONG time to process. My request took almost 11 weeks last year! If you need this for a mortgage that's closing soon, you might want to discuss alternatives with your lender.
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Charlotte White
ā¢This is true! I had to do this recently and it took forever. One alternative is to ask your mortgage lender if they'll accept a "Record of Account Transcript" instead. My loan officer initially insisted on the full return but when I explained the delay with Form 4506, they checked with their underwriting department and the transcript ended up being sufficient.
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Evan Kalinowski
ā¢Thanks for the heads up. The closing is in 3 months so that might be cutting it close. I'll definitely talk to the lender about alternatives based on all this helpful advice. Seems like getting the full return is way more complicated than I thought!
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Freya Johansen
I'm a tax preparer and see this confusion all the time! Just to clarify what others have mentioned - the IRS website only provides transcripts, not your actual filed return with all the forms and schedules. However, there's one more option that hasn't been mentioned yet: if you filed electronically, your tax software provider is actually required to retain copies of your returns for at least 3 years. Since TurboTax isn't showing your return, try calling their technical support line (not customer service) and specifically ask them to help you access your "archived return" or "prior year documents." Sometimes returns get moved to a different section of your account after the filing season ends. You might also try logging in with a different browser or clearing your cache. If that doesn't work, the Form 4506 route is your best bet for getting the complete return from the IRS, but as others noted, it takes time and costs $43. For urgent situations like mortgage applications, definitely push back with your lender about accepting the Tax Return Transcript - most will accept it once they understand the IRS limitations.
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