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This is such a common confusion with RSUs! I went through the exact same thing last year. Here's what I learned: When your RSUs vest, your company is required to withhold taxes at the supplemental wage rate (usually 22% or 37% depending on the amount). However, this withholding is often not enough to cover your full tax obligation, especially if you're in a higher tax bracket. The key thing to understand is that the FULL fair market value of all vested shares gets added to your W-2 income - not just the ones you kept after withholding. So if 100 shares vested at $50 each ($5,000 total value), that entire $5,000 goes on your W-2 even if they only gave you 78 shares after withholding 22 shares for taxes. If you sell immediately after vesting at roughly the same price, you'll have minimal capital gains impact. But you might still owe additional ordinary income tax when you file if the withholding wasn't sufficient for your tax bracket. I'd recommend calculating what your effective tax rate will be with the additional RSU income and compare it to the 22% they withheld. If there's a gap, consider setting aside some of your sale proceeds for taxes or make an estimated payment to avoid underpayment penalties.
This is really helpful, thank you! I'm definitely in a higher tax bracket than 22%, so I'm probably going to owe more when I file. One quick question - you mentioned setting aside proceeds for taxes or making estimated payments. Since this is my first time dealing with RSUs, do you know if there's a safe harbor rule I should be aware of? I don't want to get hit with underpayment penalties, but I also don't want to overpay if I don't have to.
Great question about safe harbor rules! Yes, there are safe harbor provisions that can help you avoid underpayment penalties. The general rule is that you need to pay either 90% of the current year's tax liability OR 100% of last year's tax liability (110% if your prior year AGI was over $150,000). Since RSUs can significantly increase your income compared to prior years, the "100% of last year's tax" rule is often the easier safe harbor to meet. You can calculate this by looking at your prior year tax return - if your total tax payments (withholding + estimated payments) for this year equal or exceed what you owed last year, you should be safe from penalties even if you end up owing more. That said, you'll still need to pay any balance due by the filing deadline to avoid interest charges. I'd recommend running some quick calculations to see which safe harbor threshold makes more sense for your situation, then consider making a Q4 estimated payment if needed to meet that threshold.
Just want to add another perspective on the timing aspect that might help with your decision. Since you mentioned the stock has been volatile and you have more shares vesting in coming months, you might want to consider your overall tax strategy for the year. If you sell now, you'll realize any small capital gains/losses immediately. But if you hold and the stock drops significantly before your next vesting dates, those future vests will be taxed at the lower market value (which could actually be beneficial from a tax perspective, even though it's bad for your portfolio value). On the flip side, if you're already in a high tax bracket this year due to the current vesting, spreading out the tax impact might not matter much. In that case, taking the guaranteed proceeds now (as you mentioned wanting to do) is probably the safer play. One more thing - if you do decide to sell, make sure you understand which specific shares you're selling if you have multiple vesting dates. Most brokers default to FIFO (first in, first out), but you can sometimes specify which tax lots to sell to optimize your capital gains treatment. This becomes more important as you accumulate more shares over time.
This is excellent advice about tax lot management! I never would have thought about the specific shares selection piece. Since I'm new to all this, could you explain a bit more about how the FIFO vs. specific lot selection would work in practice? For example, if I have shares that vested at different times (and therefore different prices), would selecting specific lots help me minimize capital gains? Or is this more relevant for future sales after I've held shares longer? Also, you mentioned that future vesting at lower prices could actually be tax-beneficial even if it's bad for portfolio value - that's such an interesting point I hadn't considered. It seems like there are so many variables to juggle with RSU tax planning!
As someone who's been preparing taxes for several years, I'd strongly recommend avoiding the refund transfer route. The complications far outweigh the benefits - you're dealing with third-party processors, additional fees for your client, potential delays, and as others mentioned, the risk of offsets completely derailing payment. I've found the most successful approach is requesting payment upfront for basic preparation work (maybe 50%) and the remainder upon completion but before e-filing. This protects both parties - you get compensated for your time, and they get to review everything before final payment. Most clients understand this is standard business practice, just like any other professional service. The peace of mind is worth way more than the perceived convenience of deducting from their refund!
This is exactly the approach I wish I'd taken from the beginning! The 50% upfront model makes so much sense - it's like a retainer that protects your time investment while still giving clients confidence they'll get quality work. I'm curious though, do you have clients sign the agreement digitally or in person? And have you ever had anyone push back on the upfront payment requirement? I'm thinking of switching to this model for next season but worried about scaring off potential clients who might think it seems too "business-like" for what they consider a favor.
I've been doing taxes for my neighbors for the past 3 years and learned this lesson the hard way! My first year, I tried the refund transfer route thinking it would be "easier" for everyone. What a nightmare! Between the extra fees, delayed processing, and one client whose refund got intercepted for an old tax debt (leaving me unpaid), I quickly realized it's not worth it. Now I just ask for payment when I hand over their completed return - before I hit submit on the e-file. Most people are totally fine with this since they can see exactly what their refund will be. I use a simple invoice app on my phone and accept Venmo, Zelle, or cash. Way cleaner, no third parties involved, and I sleep better at night knowing I'll actually get paid for my work! Sometimes the old-fashioned way really is the best way.
Just a practical consideration - if your vehicle is pretty old after 7 years of business use, consider if it's worth keeping for personal use at all. I was in a similar situation with a van I used for my plumbing business, facing about $18k in recapture. Instead, I sold it to one of my employees for its fair market value (about $7500) and still had to recapture, but at least I got some cash for it. Then I bought a different used vehicle for personal use that had never been a business asset. Worked out better tax-wise.
That's actually pretty smart. Did you have to do anything special on your taxes when you sold it to your employee? Did you give them any kind of discount or was it strictly fair market value?
One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is the timing of when you need to establish fair market value for the recapture calculation. The IRS requires you to determine the vehicle's FMV on the exact date you convert it from business to personal use, not when you file your taxes. I'd recommend getting a written appraisal from a qualified appraiser or at least documenting the value with resources like KBB, Edmunds, or NADA guides on the conversion date. Keep screenshots and print copies because you'll need this documentation if the IRS ever questions your recapture calculation. Also, don't forget that once you convert to personal use, you can no longer claim any business deductions for the vehicle - no more depreciation, repairs, insurance, etc. Make sure the timing works with your business needs before making the switch.
This is really helpful advice about documenting the FMV on the conversion date! I'm curious - if you get multiple valuations (like KBB, Edmunds, and NADA) and they're different, which one should you use? Can you take an average, or does the IRS prefer one source over another? Also, what counts as a "qualified appraiser" for a 7-year-old work truck - does it need to be a certified automotive appraiser, or would a dealership estimate work?
Just want to add - make sure to request a "penalty abatement" when you finally reach the IRS! If this is your brother's first time missing a payment deadline for the 2290, the IRS has a "First Time Penalty Abatement" policy that can remove those extra charges. Sounds like the $42 might include penalties and interest that could potentially be removed.
This is spot on! I got a penalty abatement on my 2290 last year. Just make sure your brother doesn't have any other penalties in the last 3 tax years or they'll deny it. You literally just have to say "I'd like to request a first-time penalty abatement under the IRS First Time Abatement Policy" when you talk to the agent.
I went through almost the exact same nightmare with my delivery business last year! The key thing that saved me was understanding that CP504B notices are often generated automatically even after you've paid, especially with Form 2290 where there can be significant processing delays. Here's what worked for me: Don't try to make another payment until you confirm whether your September payment was actually processed. Call the Practitioner Priority Service line at 866-860-4259 early in the morning (around 7 AM) - this line typically has shorter wait times than the main taxpayer assistance line. When you do get through, ask them to do a "payment tracer" on your September payment. They can tell you exactly where that money went and whether it was applied correctly. In my case, the payment had been received but was sitting in a suspense account because the reference information wasn't complete. Also, definitely get that authorization form from your brother ASAP. The IRS won't discuss anything without proper authorization, and you're wasting time on calls where they can't help you without it. The CP504B is scary but you typically have at least 30 days from the notice date before any actual levy action, so you have time to sort this out properly rather than panic-paying.
This is really valuable advice! I had no idea about the Practitioner Priority Service line or payment tracers. Quick question - do I need any special credentials to use that priority line, or can anyone call it? The name makes it sound like it's only for tax professionals. Also, when you say "reference information wasn't complete" on your payment, what exactly was missing? I want to make sure I have all the right details when I finally get through to someone. We included the notice number and my brother's EIN when we sent the September payment, but maybe we missed something else?
Eleanor Foster
Great question, Diego! I went through this exact situation last year. Your wife's real estate professional status definitely allows you to deduct the full $23,400 rental loss against your ordinary income on a joint return. One important thing to keep in mind beyond what others have mentioned - make sure you're tracking not just her property management hours, but also any time she spends on your personal rental property (showing units, coordinating repairs, reviewing financials, etc.). All of this counts toward her real estate activities. Also, consider whether you want to make a grouping election under Reg. 1.469-9 to treat all your rental properties as a single activity. This can be beneficial if you have multiple rentals or plan to acquire more in the future. You make this election by attaching a statement to your tax return. The $23,400 loss will reduce your taxable income dollar-for-dollar, which at your income level could save you around $5,600-$6,100 in federal taxes alone (depending on your effective tax rate). Don't forget about state tax savings too if you're in a state with income tax. Just make sure to keep detailed records of her hours - a simple spreadsheet with dates, activities, and time spent is usually sufficient. The IRS scrutinizes real estate professional claims closely, so good documentation is your best protection.
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Lucas Kowalski
ā¢This is incredibly helpful, Eleanor! I hadn't heard about the grouping election before - that sounds like something we should definitely consider. We're actually looking at potentially buying another rental property next year, so treating them as a single activity could be really beneficial. Quick question about the documentation - should my wife be logging her hours daily or is a weekly summary sufficient? And for the time she spends on our rental property specifically, does things like researching comparable rents or reviewing utility bills count toward those hours? I want to make sure we're capturing everything we're legitimately entitled to include. Also, do you happen to know if there's a deadline for making that grouping election, or can we make it whenever we file our return?
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CosmicCommander
ā¢Great questions, Lucas! For documentation, I'd recommend daily logging if possible - it's much more defensible during an audit than trying to reconstruct weeks later. Even just a quick note on your phone or a simple app works. Weekly summaries can work too, but make sure they're detailed enough to show actual activities performed. Absolutely yes on researching comparable rents and reviewing utility bills - those are legitimate rental management activities! Also include time spent: reviewing tenant applications, coordinating maintenance, analyzing cash flows, researching local rental markets, communicating with contractors, and any property-related correspondence. The key is that it needs to be directly related to the rental activity. Regarding the grouping election deadline - this is crucial timing! The election must be made by the due date (including extensions) of the return for the first year you want it to be effective. So if you want it to apply to your 2024 return, you need to make the election when you file that return. You can't go back and make it for prior years, and once made, it's generally binding for future years unless you get IRS permission to revoke it. Since you're considering another property purchase, I'd definitely recommend making the election on your 2024 return. It gives you much more flexibility in how losses and income flow between properties. Just attach a statement to your return describing the activities you're grouping together. @Eleanor Foster - thanks for bringing up the grouping election point, that s'such an underutilized strategy!
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NebulaNinja
Just wanted to add a practical tip from my experience - make sure you're also aware of the depreciation recapture implications when you eventually sell the rental property. While being able to deduct the full $23,400 loss against ordinary income is fantastic now, any depreciation you've claimed over the years will be subject to recapture at up to 25% when you sell. This doesn't change the fact that claiming the loss now is still beneficial - the time value of money means getting the tax savings today is worth more than paying recapture later. But it's good to plan ahead and maybe set aside some of those tax savings for the eventual recapture bill. Also, since your wife qualifies as a real estate professional, you might want to consider whether it makes sense to accelerate any planned repairs or improvements this year to maximize your current year deductions. Things like new flooring, appliances, or HVAC systems can often be fully deducted under Section 199A or through bonus depreciation rules. One last thing - if you're in a high-tax state, the state tax savings from this loss deduction could be substantial too. In states like California or New York, you could be saving an additional $2,000+ on state taxes alone from that $23,400 loss.
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Emma Garcia
ā¢This is really excellent advice about planning ahead for depreciation recapture! I hadn't fully considered that aspect. Quick question though - when you mention accelerating repairs or improvements, how do we determine what qualifies as a deductible repair versus a capital improvement that needs to be depreciated? For example, we're planning to replace some old carpet and repaint a few rooms after our current tenant moves out. Would those typically be deductible repairs, or would they be considered improvements? I want to make sure we're categorizing everything correctly to maximize our current year deductions while staying compliant. Also, regarding the Section 199A deduction - does that apply to rental income even when we're showing a loss for the year? I'm still trying to understand how that interacts with the real estate professional rules.
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