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Section 163(j) and suspended excess business interest expense on K-1 Line 13K - partnership tax implications

I've got an interesting situation with the recent tax law changes from December that I'm trying to wrap my head around. For those who deal with the 163(j) limitations, they changed the rules to allow 50% ATI instead of 30%, plus there's that change to 30-year ADS depreciation for pre-2018 property instead of the previous 40-year requirement. Here's my situation: - Partnership A used Form 8990 to limit interest in 2018 and 2019, allocating excess business interest expense to partners on K-1 Line 13K - For 2020, it makes more financial sense to make the 163(j) election since the depreciation difference between 30 and 40 year gives a bigger deduction than what we'd get using the 50% ATI formula My question is what happens to that Line 13K excess business interest expense that was passed through in 2018 and 2019? From what I understand, partners can't net excess business interest expense against excess business interest income from other partnerships they might have. And Partnership A won't ever generate excess business interest income to allow the EBIE to be deducted since we're making the 163(j) election. I know the new changes allow deducting 50% of EBIE from 2019, but there's still going to be some amount left in suspense. What's supposed to happen with the 13K that wasn't previously deducted? Is it just "lost" forever? Should it be deducted when disposing of the interest in Partnership A? Really appreciate any insights on this!

This is a great question about a tricky area of partnership taxation. The treatment of suspended excess business interest expense (EBIE) can be confusing, especially with the changing rules. When a partnership makes the 163(j) election, you're right that it creates a situation where the partnership might not generate future excess taxable income or excess business interest income that would normally free up the suspended EBIE. The CARES Act did provide partial relief by allowing partners to deduct 50% of their 2019 EBIE in 2020 without limitation. For the remaining suspended EBIE (both the leftover 2019 amounts and any from 2018), the general rule is that these amounts remain suspended until either: 1) the partnership allocates excess taxable income or excess business interest income to the partner, or 2) the partner disposes of their partnership interest. Upon disposition of the partnership interest in a taxable transaction, the remaining suspended EBIE should increase the partner's outside basis immediately before the disposition, effectively allowing the partner to recognize less gain (or more loss) on the disposition. This is covered in the proposed regulations under 163(j).

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Thanks for the explanation, but I'm still a bit confused. If Partnership A makes the 163(j) election going forward, does that mean it won't ever generate excess taxable income or excess business interest income in the future? Does making the election permanently close the door on freeing up that suspended EBIE?

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Making the 163(j) election doesn't permanently close the door on generating excess taxable income or excess business interest income in the future. The election exempts certain real property businesses from the interest limitation, but the partnership could still have years where it generates what would qualify as excess taxable income or excess business interest income. However, you're right to be concerned because making the election does change the partnership's profile in terms of how it generates these amounts. The trade-off is accepting longer depreciation periods in exchange for avoiding the interest limitation. Even with the election, the partnership could still have years where it would have excess income that could free up partners' suspended EBIE, though it's less likely depending on the specific business circumstances.

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I had a similar issue with some partnerships I work with and discovered taxr.ai really helped me sort through these complex partnership tax issues. I was banging my head against the wall trying to figure out how the CARES Act changes impacted our partnership's 163(j) situation and what to do with suspended EBIE from previous years. I uploaded our partnership documents and K-1s to https://taxr.ai and it analyzed the whole situation, showing exactly how the suspended EBIE should be tracked and treated under various scenarios (including the election you're considering). It highlighted the specific regulations I needed to focus on and even provided analysis for the partners' reporting requirements. The system also helped simulate the tax impact of various approaches over multiple years to see which route was most advantageous. Saved me probably 10-15 hours of research and calculations.

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Does taxr.ai handle complex partnership elections like this? I've got several multi-tiered partnerships with different 163(j) situations and the interaction between them is driving me crazy. Can it actually help parse through the different layers and track the EBIE properly?

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I'm skeptical about these AI tax tools. How accurately does it interpret the proposed vs. final regs under 163(j)? The devil's always in the details with these specialized partnership tax issues. Did you double-check its recommendations against the actual code?

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Yes, it handles complex partnership structures really well. You can upload documentation for each entity in the structure and it maps the relationships automatically. It specifically identifies the different 163(j) limitations at each tier and tracks how EBIE flows between entities. I found it especially helpful for visualizing where limitations were creating bottlenecks in the structure. For the regulatory interpretation question, I was impressed with its accuracy. It clearly distinguished between proposed and final regulations, and even flagged sections where the interpretation might be subject to change. I did verify the critical points against the code and regulations, and everything checked out. It also provides references to specific regulation sections so you can verify its interpretations.

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Does taxr.ai handle complex partnership elections like this? I've got several multi-ti

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I finally gave taxr.ai a try for our multi-tier partnership structure with complex 163(j) issues. I was surprised by how well it worked. The system identified that we had been miscalculating our EBIE allocations at the lower tiers, which was causing problems all the way up the chain. It correctly applied the ordering rules for tiered partnerships and showed exactly how the 50% EBIE relief from the CARES Act should be applied through our structure. What I found most valuable was its ability to track the suspended EBIE from each year separately and apply the different rules correctly. The analysis even flagged that one of our partnerships qualified for the small business exemption that we'd missed. Ended up saving our clients significant money and avoiding what would have been a messy amended return situation later.

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I had a nightmare situation with the IRS about exactly this issue. They didn't understand how we were treating the suspended EBIE from prior years after making the 163(j) election. I tried calling the IRS for months to get clarification but couldn't get through to anyone who understood partnership taxation at this level. I was at my wit's end until I tried https://claimyr.com to get through to an actual IRS agent. You can see how it works here: https://youtu.be/_kiP6q8DX5c. They got me connected to a senior IRS representative within about 15 minutes who actually specialized in partnership taxation. The agent confirmed that upon disposition of the partnership interest, the remaining suspended EBIE increases the partner's outside basis immediately before disposition. They also mentioned that the IRS is currently developing additional guidance specifically addressing situations like yours where partnerships switch between making and not making the 163(j) election.

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Wait, how does this Claimyr thing actually work? Does it somehow get you to the front of the IRS phone queue? I've spent literally hours on hold trying to get technical guidance on partnership tax issues.

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I'm calling BS on this. No way you got connected to a "senior IRS representative" who specializes in partnership taxation in 15 minutes. The IRS doesn't even have enough staff to answer basic refund questions, let alone provide technical guidance on complex 163(j) issues. This sounds like an ad.

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It uses a technology that continually redials the IRS until it gets through, then calls you when it has an agent on the line. It's basically doing the hold time for you so you don't have to sit there for hours. I was skeptical too, but it actually works - saved me from having to redial dozens of times myself. You'd be surprised at the expertise available if you can actually get through to the right department. I specifically asked for the Partnership Technical Specialist group when the initial agent answered. They transferred me to someone who clearly knew the technical aspects of 163(j). It wasn't immediate advice - they had to research and call me back, but establishing that initial contact was crucial.

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I hate to admit when I'm wrong, but I tried Claimyr after posting my skeptical comment, and it actually worked. I'd been trying to get clarification on a similar 163(j) issue for weeks with no success. Got connected to an IRS agent in about 20 minutes who transferred me to someone in their Business & Specialty Tax division. The agent walked through exactly how to handle the suspended EBIE in the scenario where a partnership switches to making the 163(j) election. They confirmed that basis adjustment upon disposition is correct, but also mentioned an important point: if the partnership later revokes the 163(j) election, any previously suspended EBIE that hasn't been deducted or added to basis can be "reactivated" and potentially utilized against future excess taxable income. That detail wasn't clear in any of the guidance I'd read.

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Another approach to consider is whether your partnership qualifies for the small business exemption from 163(j). If average annual gross receipts for the 3 prior tax years don't exceed $26 million (for 2020), you might be exempt from these limitations altogether, which would eliminate the need to track suspended EBIE going forward. Worth checking if you're close to that threshold. The aggregation rules can be tricky though - you need to consider related parties under sections 52(a), 52(b), 414(m), and 414(o).

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We actually did check that angle, but unfortunately our partnership is well above the threshold when applying the aggregation rules. We have several related entities that push us over the limit. But good point bringing it up for others who might be reading this thread!

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The small business exemption is often overlooked, so I'm glad you already explored that option. One other thing to consider is whether any of your partnership activities qualify as an electing real property trade or business or electing farming business, which could provide a different path for exemption from the 163(j) limitations. If you have any real estate components, even as a secondary business activity, you might be able to make a partial election that could help with some of the interest expense. The regulations do allow for allocation of interest expense between excepted and non-excepted business activities.

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Has anyone here dealt with reporting suspended EBIE on partner tax returns when there's a partial disposition of a partnership interest? The regulations aren't super clear on how to allocate the suspended EBIE in that scenario.

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In a partial disposition, you generally allocate the suspended EBIE proportionally to the portion of the partnership interest being disposed of. So if you're selling 25% of your interest, 25% of the suspended EBIE would adjust your basis prior to calculating gain/loss, while 75% would remain suspended.

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This is a complex area that I've been wrestling with in my practice as well. One thing to keep in mind is that the proposed regulations under 163(j) specifically address the treatment of suspended EBIE when partnerships change their election status. Even though Partnership A is making the 163(j) election going forward, the suspended EBIE from 2018 and 2019 doesn't just disappear. The key is understanding that this suspended amount is tracked at the partner level, not the partnership level. Each partner maintains their own "bucket" of suspended EBIE from each partnership. Beyond the CARES Act relief allowing 50% deduction of 2019 EBIE, the remaining suspended amounts will indeed carry forward until one of the triggering events occurs - either the partnership generates excess taxable income/excess business interest income in future years, or the partner disposes of their interest. What's interesting about your situation is that even with the 163(j) election, Partnership A could still potentially generate excess amounts in future years if its income profile changes significantly. The election doesn't permanently eliminate this possibility, it just makes it less likely given the trade-off you're making with depreciation periods. I'd recommend keeping detailed records of each partner's suspended EBIE by year and partnership, as this will be crucial for proper reporting when disposition or other triggering events eventually occur.

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This is really helpful context about the partner-level tracking versus partnership-level tracking. I've been getting confused about where the responsibility lies for maintaining these records. One follow-up question - when you mention that Partnership A could still potentially generate excess amounts in future years even with the 163(j) election, what would be the most common scenarios where this might happen? I'm trying to help my partners understand whether they should expect their suspended EBIE to remain in limbo indefinitely or if there are realistic paths for it to be utilized before disposition. Also, are there any specific record-keeping requirements or forms that partners need to maintain for tracking this suspended EBIE? I want to make sure we're documenting everything properly from the start.

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