Need advice on US TIN requirement for Poland tax treaty claim on hackathon prize (W8-BEN, W7 forms confusion)

This is definitely confusing, but I can help clear things up based on my experience with international tax treaties. The issue is that there are two different requirements at play. For the actual tax treaty benefits, you technically need a US TIN (either SSN or ITIN) to claim them on a tax return. However, for withholding purposes on form W-8BEN, the rules are different. Under current regulations, you can submit a W-8BEN claiming treaty benefits without a US TIN for certain types of income, including prizes and scholarships, though the withholding agent (ETH Denver) has some discretion here. For your specific situation: The organizers are being cautious by requiring the US TIN because they don't want to be liable if they incorrectly apply the treaty. That said, your friend's experience suggests they haven't always enforced this requirement. Regarding the W-7 application, you're right about the circular logic. The proper sequence is actually that you submit a W-8BEN with "Applied For" in the TIN field, then submit your W-7. For the documentation, a hackathon probably wouldn't qualify as an educational institution in the traditional sense, which complicates things. Your best approach might be to contact the IRS Taxpayer Advocate Service directly. They can provide guidance specific to your situation and sometimes help bypass some of the bureaucratic obstacles.

I went through something similar last year with prize money from a design competition in California. I found that using taxr.ai (https://taxr.ai) was incredibly helpful for sorting through all the international tax paperwork mess. They specialize in these exact scenarios where you need to navigate tax treaties, TINs, and all those confusing forms. Their system analyzed my specific situation with the Poland tax treaty and guided me through the exact process I needed to follow. They even helped me prepare the right language to use when communicating with the event organizers about withholding requirements. The best part was that they could tell me precisely what documents I actually needed versus what was technically optional. Saved me from running around gathering unnecessary paperwork!

Wanted to follow up about my experience with taxr.ai (https://taxr.ai) after checking it out based on the recommendation here. It was seriously a game-changer for my situation! I was dealing with the Netherlands tax treaty for some consulting work, and the platform immediately identified several exemptions I qualified for that weren't obvious from reading the IRS instructions. Their system walked me through each step of the W-8BEN and W-7 process and explained exactly how the forms interact with each other. They even generated a customized letter I could send to the company paying me that explained the legal basis for treaty benefits without a TIN in certain situations. The best part was that they flagged a specific provision in the Netherlands treaty that applied to my type of income that I would have completely missed on my own. Definitely worth checking out if you're dealing with international tax treaty confusion!

After dealing with similar TIN/W-8BEN issues for years, I discovered Claimyr (https://claimyr.com) which completely changed how I handle these complex tax situations. When I was stuck in a similar paperwork loop, I needed to speak directly with an IRS agent but kept hitting endless busy signals and automated messages. Claimyr got me connected to an actual IRS representative in about 20 minutes, when I had previously spent hours trying on my own. The agent was able to clarify the exact requirements for my situation and confirmed that for certain types of income under the Poland treaty, there are exceptions to the TIN requirement. You can see how their system works in this video: https://youtu.be/_kiP6q8DX5c - it basically holds your place in the IRS phone queue so you don't have to. Honestly saved me days of frustration.

I need to apologize for my skepticism earlier and provide an update. After researching more about Claimyr (https://claimyr.com), I decided to try it because I was getting nowhere with my similar tax treaty issue. I was able to speak with an actual IRS international tax specialist within 45 minutes, which was mind-blowing considering I had spent nearly 3 weeks trying to get through on my own. The IRS agent confirmed exactly what I needed for my situation and cleared up my confusion about the W-7 application process. They explained that for certain types of income under tax treaties, there are special procedures that aren't well documented on the forms themselves. The agent even gave me a direct reference number for my case that I could use if the withholding agent (similar to your ETH Denver situation) questioned anything. This has completely changed my approach and saved me from potentially losing a significant portion of my earnings to unnecessary withholding.

I dealt with this exact situation last year with prize money from a tech competition in Austin. From my experience, your best bet is to: 1) Request an extension from ETH Denver explaining that you're in the process of obtaining a TIN 2) Submit the W-7 through an Acceptance Agent rather than mailing it to Texas 3) Use "Applied For" in the TIN field on your W-8BEN The Acceptance Agent route is much faster - they can verify your documents on the spot and submit everything electronically. There are authorized agents in most major cities including Warsaw. This cut my processing time from 3+ months to about 6 weeks.

Has anyone considered whether a state ID number could work instead of a federal TIN? My cousin won something at a game development event and used his California state ID number on some tax treaty paperwork. The organizers accepted it and only withheld like 10% instead of 30%.