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Natalie Khan

Multi-Year Traditional to Roth IRA Conversion Strategy - Planning Ahead for Tax Implications

I've accumulated around $800k in my traditional IRA and I'm planning to convert it to a Roth over the next 3 years. I've been diligent about tracking my nondeductible contributions using Form 8606 since I haven't been able to deduct my contributions for quite some time now. My total nondeductible contributions are sitting at approximately $120k. If I decide to convert $270k this year, I believe I can use the pro-rata rule, right? So the taxable income would be calculated using the ratio of my nondeductible contributions ($120k) to my total IRA balance ($800k). That would make the taxable portion about $230k (or $270k minus $40k of my basis). Does that math sound right? What I'm unclear about is how this works for years 2 and 3 of my conversion plan. Is the pro-rata rule applied separately each year with the remaining balances? Or is it a one-time calculation for the first conversion only? I want to make sure I'm planning for the right tax hit each year.

This is a great question about Roth conversions! You're on the right track with the pro-rata rule, but let me clarify how it works in a multi-year conversion scenario. The pro-rata rule is calculated each year based on your remaining IRA balances and basis at the end of that year. It's not a one-shot deal. Here's how it works: For your first year conversion of $270k, you would use the ratio of your nondeductible contributions ($120k) to your total IRA value ($800k), which is 15%. So about 15% of your conversion would be tax-free (representing return of your already-taxed contributions), and 85% would be taxable. That means approximately $40.5k would be tax-free, and $229.5k would be taxable. For year 2, you'd recalculate based on your remaining IRA balance (about $530k) and your remaining basis (about $79.5k). The new ratio would be applied to that year's conversion amount. The same happens in year 3 with whatever remains in your account and whatever basis is left.

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Thanks for the detailed explanation! So my basis gets reduced proportionally with each conversion - that makes sense. Quick follow-up: Should I try to keep the annual conversion amounts similar each year to manage my tax brackets, or is there a strategy for optimizing the timing/amounts of the conversions?

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Yes, managing your tax brackets is exactly what you should be thinking about! Ideally, you want to convert enough each year to "fill up" your current tax bracket without pushing into the next higher bracket. Look at your other income sources and determine how much room you have in your current bracket. Then convert just enough to reach the top of that bracket. This approach minimizes your overall tax burden across the three years. Also consider any upcoming changes to your income situation. If you expect lower income in one of the next three years (maybe from retirement or a gap in employment), that might be an ideal year to convert a larger amount.

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I went through something similar last year and found https://taxr.ai incredibly helpful for my Roth conversion planning. I was trying to calculate the pro-rata rule manually and kept second-guessing myself. Their system analyzed my previous tax returns and Form 8606 history, then showed me exactly how the conversions would impact my taxes over multiple years. What I really liked was that they showed me different scenarios based on different conversion amounts and timelines. Helped me avoid a potential mistake where I would have pushed myself into a higher tax bracket in year two.

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Does the taxr.ai tool actually walk you through filing the 8606 for the conversions? I'm planning to start converting my traditional IRA next year but I'm worried about messing up the paperwork.

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I'm a bit skeptical of these tax tools. How does this compare to just talking to a CPA? My situation is pretty complex with multiple retirement accounts and some old 401ks I haven't rolled over yet.

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The tool actually does provide guidance on how to properly complete Form 8606 for your conversions. It shows you which lines need which numbers and explains the calculations. I found this super helpful since the form can be confusing, especially when you're tracking basis across multiple years. For complex situations with multiple retirement accounts, I found it even more valuable. It helped me understand how my old 401ks would affect the pro-rata calculations if I rolled them over. The analysis actually saved me from making a costly mistake with my rollover timing that my previous accountant hadn't caught.

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I need to follow up on my skeptical comment about taxr.ai. I decided to try it for my Roth conversion planning, and I'm honestly impressed. The tool identified that I had been calculating my basis incorrectly on previous Form 8606 filings, which would have caused major headaches during my conversion plan. It analyzed my last 5 years of returns and showed me exactly where I went wrong. Then it projected three different conversion scenarios with the tax implications for each. The visualization of how my tax bracket would be affected each year was really helpful for planning purposes. For anyone doing multi-year Roth conversions with non-deductible contributions in the mix, it's definitely worth checking out. Saved me from potentially costly mistakes.

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After spending WEEKS trying to get someone at the IRS to answer questions about my multi-year Roth conversion plan, I finally found https://claimyr.com and it changed everything. You can watch how it works here: https://youtu.be/_kiP6q8DX5c Basically, they got me connected to an actual IRS agent in about 20 minutes when I had been trying for days on my own. The agent walked me through exactly how to handle the pro-rata rule across multiple years and confirmed I was calculating my basis correctly. They even reviewed my previous 8606 forms to make sure I hadn't messed anything up. I was able to get clarity on how my basis would carry forward each year during my conversion plan, which none of the online calculators could properly explain for my situation.

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Wait how does this actually work? Do they just call the IRS for you? I'm confused about how they get through when nobody else can.

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Sorry but this sounds like BS. I've been trying to reach the IRS for months. No way some service can magically get through when millions of people can't. What's the catch here?

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They use a technology that monitors the IRS phone lines and calls on your behalf. When the system detects an opening, it calls you and connects you directly to the IRS agent. So yes, they are essentially calling for you, but with technology that knows exactly when to call to get through. The reason most people can't get through is because everyone's calling at once during business hours. Their system is constantly trying at all hours when the IRS is open, and can immediately jump on any opening in the queue.

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I need to apologize for my skeptical comment about Claimyr. I tried it this morning after spending two months trying to get IRS clarification on my Roth conversion strategy. Got connected to an IRS representative in about 30 minutes. The agent confirmed that my understanding of the pro-rata rule for multi-year conversions was incorrect - I would have massively underreported my taxable income. They walked me through exactly how to calculate the taxable portion for each year of my planned conversions. Never thought I'd say this, but the IRS agent was actually super helpful once I finally got through to them. Saved me from what would have been a huge tax mess down the road. Definitely worth it just for the peace of mind.

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One thing to consider that I haven't seen mentioned yet - if you have any employer-sponsored retirement plans available to you (like a 401k), you might want to consider rolling any pre-tax IRA funds into that plan before doing your conversions. This is because employer plans don't count in the pro-rata calculation. If you can move the pre-tax portion of your IRA to a 401k, you could potentially convert just your non-deductible contributions to a Roth with minimal tax impact.

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That's a really interesting strategy I hadn't considered! Do all 401k plans accept rollovers from IRAs? And would I be able to just roll over the pre-tax portion or would I have to move everything?

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Not all 401k plans accept rollovers from IRAs, so you'd need to check with your specific plan administrator. This is sometimes called a "reverse rollover" and plan rules vary. If your plan does allow it, you can only roll over the pre-tax portions of your IRA. The non-deductible contributions (your basis) must remain in the IRA. But that's actually ideal for what you're trying to accomplish. You could move the pre-tax amounts to your 401k, leaving just your $120k basis in the IRA, then convert that to a Roth with little to no tax consequences.

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Make sure you're considering the age factor in your conversion strategy. If you're under 59½ when you do the conversion and plan to access any of the converted funds within 5 years, you could face penalties on those withdrawals. Each conversion has its own 5-year clock for penalty-free access to the PRINCIPAL amount converted. This is separate from the 5-year rule for earnings.

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I thought the 5-year rule only applied to earnings in a Roth, not to the converted amounts? So confused about Roth rules sometimes.

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Actually, there are two separate 5-year rules for Roth IRAs that often get confused: 1. The 5-year rule for earnings: You need to wait 5 years from your first Roth contribution before you can withdraw earnings penalty-free (if you're under 59½). 2. The 5-year rule for conversions: Each conversion has its own 5-year waiting period before you can withdraw the converted principal penalty-free if you're under 59½. So if you convert $270k this year and are under 59½, you'd need to wait 5 years before accessing that specific converted amount without the 10% early withdrawal penalty. This is true even if you already have a Roth IRA that's older than 5 years. @Natalie Khan - This is definitely something to factor into your 3-year conversion timeline if you re'planning to access any of these funds before age 59½!

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One additional consideration for your multi-year conversion strategy - don't forget about the impact on your Medicare premiums if you're approaching age 65 or already enrolled. The additional taxable income from your Roth conversions could push you into higher IRMAA (Income-Related Monthly Adjustment Amount) brackets, which would increase your Medicare Part B and Part D premiums. These surcharges are based on your modified adjusted gross income from two years prior, so a large conversion in 2025 would affect your 2027 Medicare premiums. You might want to model different conversion amounts to see how they impact not just your current tax brackets, but also your future Medicare costs. Sometimes spreading the conversions over 4-5 years instead of 3 can help you stay below the IRMAA thresholds while still achieving your goal of converting to Roth.

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This is such an important point that often gets overlooked! I'm 62 and planning to start Medicare in a few years, so this IRMAA consideration is really valuable. Do you know what the current income thresholds are for the different IRMAA brackets? I want to make sure I'm modeling this correctly alongside my conversion strategy. It seems like the Medicare premium increases could potentially offset some of the long-term benefits of the Roth conversion if not planned carefully. Also, is there any way to appeal or adjust these surcharges if your income changes significantly after the conversion years (like if you retire and have much lower income)?

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