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Diego Fisher

Confused about ISO Exercise, Sale and AMT Question for my stock options

I need some help understanding how AMT works when I sell my ISO shares as a qualified disposition. Let me explain my situation. I exercised 10,000 shares of my ISO at an exercise price of $1.35 when the FMV at exercise was $13.50. I ended up paying federal AMT of around $24,000 and state AMT of about $4,000 last year because of this. Now I'm considering selling about 3,000 of these shares at the current FMV of $6.75. What I'm confused about is whether I'll have to pay additional Long Term Capital Gains tax on this sale, or if somehow that gets offset by the AMT I already paid? Also, if I decide to exercise more stock options this year, can I use the AMT I paid last year as some kind of credit in my future AMT calculations? Sorry if this is a bit confusing! Stock options and taxes make my head spin.

The AMT you paid last year essentially gave you a "basis adjustment" for AMT purposes. Here's how it works: For regular tax purposes, your basis in those shares is $1.35 per share (what you paid). For AMT purposes, your basis is $13.50 per share (the FMV when exercised). When you sell the shares in a qualifying disposition, you'll calculate capital gains two ways - for regular tax and AMT purposes. If you sell 3,000 shares at $6.75, for regular tax you'd have gain of $5.40 per share ($6.75 - $1.35). For AMT purposes, you'd actually have a loss of $6.75 per share ($6.75 - $13.50). This difference typically generates an AMT credit you can use. And yes, you can generally carry forward unused AMT credits to offset future tax liability. These credits can be especially valuable if you're exercising more ISOs this year.

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Wait I'm confused. So if I'm understanding right, you're saying OP would actually have an AMT loss on the sale? Does that mean they get some kind of refund of the AMT they paid before? And how exactly does the credit work for future exercises?

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Yes, for AMT purposes there would be a loss because the AMT basis is higher than the selling price. This doesn't generate a refund automatically, but creates what's called an AMT credit carryforward. This AMT credit can be used in future years when your regular tax exceeds your AMT. It essentially helps recover the "extra" tax you paid previously. The credit can be particularly valuable if you're exercising more ISOs, as it can offset potential AMT liability from those new exercises.

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I went through this exact same situation last year and found https://taxr.ai super helpful for ISO and AMT questions. My ISO exercise was similar to yours and I was completely lost about how the AMT would affect my taxes when I sold. The tool analyzed my exercise documents and explained exactly how my AMT basis worked and what would happen when I sold shares. It saved me from making a costly mistake because I was about to sell a bunch of shares without understanding the tax implications. Their explanation of the AMT credit carryforward was way clearer than what my HR department provided.

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Did the tool actually tell you the exact amount of AMT credit you could use? I'm in a similar situation but with a partial disqualifying disposition and I'm not sure if my tax software is calculating everything correctly.

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I'm skeptical about these tax tools. Did it actually give you personalized advice or just generic info I could find on the IRS website? And how accurate was it compared to what actually happened when you filed?

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The tool did calculate my specific AMT credit amount based on the documents I uploaded. It showed me exactly how much I could apply to my current year taxes and what would carry forward. For your question about accuracy - it was spot on. I had my CPA double-check the numbers and he confirmed they were correct. It's definitely not generic info like what you'd find on the IRS site - it's specifically tailored to your situation based on your actual documents. The explanations helped me understand the whole AMT credit system in a way that actually made sense.

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Just wanted to follow up about my experience with taxr.ai that someone mentioned earlier. I decided to try it with my ISO documentation since my situation was similar to the original post. I was honestly surprised at how helpful it was! I uploaded my ISO exercise statements and stock sale confirmations, and it showed me exactly how my AMT credit would work when I sell portions of my shares. The visualization of how my AMT credit would be applied over multiple years of selling was super clear. It saved me from making a big mistake - I was planning to sell all my shares this year, but the analysis showed I'd be better off spreading the sales across 2 years to maximize my AMT credit recovery. My tax bill will be about $8,000 lower following their recommendation!

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If you're struggling with getting clear AMT guidance from the IRS, I recommend https://claimyr.com for getting through to an actual IRS agent. I had a complicated ISO situation similar to yours and needed specific answers. I spent days trying to reach someone at the IRS with no luck. Claimyr got me connected to an IRS agent in about 20 minutes who clarified exactly how my AMT credit would work with future stock sales. You can see how it works at https://youtu.be/_kiP6q8DX5c - basically they navigate the IRS phone system for you and call you when an agent is on the line. Saved me hours of frustration and hold music.

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How does this service actually work? Do they somehow have a special line to the IRS or something? Seems weird that they could get through when nobody else can.

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This sounds like a scam. No way they can get through to the IRS faster than anyone else. The IRS phone system is designed to be equally terrible for everyone lol. I'll believe it when I see it.

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They don't have a special line to the IRS - they use technology to navigate the IRS phone tree and wait on hold for you. When an agent finally picks up, they connect you to the call. It's basically a service that waits on hold so you don't have to. I was skeptical too at first. But it's not a scam - it's just a smart use of technology to solve a common problem. The reason they can get through is simply that they're persistent and their system keeps redialing at optimal times until it gets through. It's the same process you could do yourself if you had hours to waste on hold.

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I have to admit I was dead wrong about Claimyr. After posting that skeptical comment, I decided to try it anyway since I was desperate to talk to someone at the IRS about my ISO exercise and AMT credits. It actually worked! I got connected to an IRS tax specialist in about 35 minutes (which is miraculous considering I'd spent 3+ hours on multiple days trying on my own). The agent walked me through exactly how to track my AMT credit carryforward and how to document it properly on my return when I sell shares at different price points. The information was incredibly valuable - turns out I was calculating my AMT basis incorrectly and would have potentially overpaid by several thousand dollars. Definitely worth it if you need specific guidance on AMT issues.

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One thing to consider with your ISO sale that nobody mentioned yet: If your current FMV ($6.75) is less than your exercise FMV ($13.50), you might want to consider your timing carefully. Since you're facing a loss for AMT purposes, you might benefit from tax loss harvesting strategies. Also, when you exercise additional ISOs, remember that the AMT exemption phase-out could affect your calculations significantly depending on your income level. The AMT credit from last year will help, but it's not always a 1:1 offset.

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Could you explain more about the AMT exemption phase-out? I'm in a somewhat similar situation but with a higher income bracket and I'm trying to figure out how much of my AMT credit I'll actually be able to use this year.

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The AMT exemption begins to phase out when your income exceeds certain thresholds. For 2024, the phase-out starts at $609,350 for married filing jointly and $304,750 for single filers. For every $4 of income above those thresholds, you lose $1 of your AMT exemption. This phase-out can significantly increase your AMT liability even with credits available. If you're in a higher income bracket, you might only be able to use a portion of your AMT credit in a given year, with the remainder carrying forward. It's particularly important to model this out if you're exercising additional ISOs, as the new exercise could trigger AMT while simultaneously limiting how much of your existing credit you can use.

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Has anyone used H&R Block or TurboTax for handling ISO sales with AMT credits? I'm wondering if they calculate everything correctly or if I need to use a specialized tax preparer for this.

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I used TurboTax Premier last year for my ISO sales and it handled the AMT credit carryover pretty well. You need to make sure you have Form 8801 from your previous year's return and enter everything correctly. The software prompted me for all the right information, but you definitely need to understand the basics yourself to verify it's doing things right.

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I tried using TurboTax but it got really confusing with AMT credits. Ended up hiring a CPA who specializes in equity compensation and she found several errors in what TurboTax was calculating. If you have a significant amount of money involved, might be worth getting professional help for at least one year so you understand how everything works.

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This is a great question about AMT and ISO dispositions! I went through something very similar last year. One thing I learned that might help: when you sell those 3,000 shares at $6.75, you'll indeed have different tax treatments for regular vs AMT purposes. For regular tax, you'll have long-term capital gains of ($6.75 - $1.35) × 3,000 = $16,200. But for AMT purposes, you'll actually have a loss of ($6.75 - $13.50) × 3,000 = -$20,250. This AMT loss helps generate additional AMT credit that you can use to offset future regular tax liability. The key thing to remember is that AMT credits can only be used when your regular tax exceeds your tentative minimum tax in future years. So if you're planning to exercise more ISOs this year, you'll want to model out whether you'll be able to use those credits effectively or if they'll just carry forward again. I'd strongly recommend getting a tax projection done before you make any moves, especially if you're considering additional exercises. The timing of when you sell and exercise can make a huge difference in your overall tax bill.

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This is really helpful! I'm new to all this ISO stuff and trying to wrap my head around it. When you say "AMT credits can only be used when your regular tax exceeds your tentative minimum tax" - does that mean if I'm subject to AMT again this year from new exercises, I basically can't use any of my existing AMT credit? That seems like it would create this endless cycle where you keep building up credits but can never actually use them if you keep exercising ISOs.

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