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One thing to consider that hasn't been mentioned - while there's no AMT implication when exercising underwater ISOs, there could be benefits to this strategy beyond just starting your holding period clock. If your company does a new 409A valuation in the future and the price goes up, exercising at today's lower strike price could save you money compared to waiting. You're essentially locking in your purchase price now, betting on future growth. Also, some companies have exercise windows when you leave - exercising gradually while employed can reduce the cash needed at separation. And depending on your company's stage, early exercise might have qualified small business stock (QSBS) implications that could potentially exclude large amounts of gain from taxes later.
Can you explain more about the QSBS angle? I've heard it mentioned before but don't fully understand how it works with ISOs or if there are timing considerations.
QSBS (Qualified Small Business Stock) is a potentially huge tax benefit that allows you to exclude up to 100% of capital gains when you sell qualifying stock (up to $10M or 10x your basis, whichever is greater). For it to qualify, you need to: 1) Acquire stock directly from a C-Corporation with less than $50M in gross assets when issued 2) Hold the stock for at least 5 years 3) The company must be in an active qualifying business (most tech companies qualify, but some industries like hospitality or finance are excluded) With ISOs, the timing matters because QSBS status is determined when you exercise, not when you're granted options. So exercising early while the company is still small enough could secure QSBS treatment, even if it grows beyond $50M in assets later. This is a major reason some people exercise underwater options - the potential long-term tax benefit can far outweigh the immediate cost.
A word of caution from someone who's been through this: just because you CAN exercise underwater options without AMT doesn't mean you SHOULD. I did this at my previous startup believing in their future - paid about $45k to exercise options below strike price. The company never recovered and eventually shut down. That money was completely lost. No tax deduction, no nothing. It's considered a capital loss when you sell or when the shares become worthless, but capital losses are limited to $3k per year against ordinary income (unlimited against capital gains). So while the AMT advice here is correct, make sure you're making this decision with eyes wide open about the company's actual prospects, not just hope. Exercise only what you can afford to lose entirely.
Ouch, that's brutal. Did you at least get to carry forward the losses to future years? I thought capital losses could be carried forward indefinitely.
Another possibility - could this be related to an ex-spouse or business partner? I had a similar situation where my ex-husband's accountant kept making estimated tax payments under my SSN for a business I was no longer part of after our divorce. Took years to untangle because nobody at the IRS could figure out where the payments were coming from. Make sure you check with any past business associates or family members who might have your SSN on file for some legitimate reason. Sometimes these mysteries have simple explanations.
I honestly hadn't considered that angle! I was briefly part of a small partnership about 6 years ago that dissolved, but we remained on good terms. I never thought they might still be using my info for something, but I'll definitely reach out to my former partner to check. That said, I'd still expect the IRS to be able to tell me who's making these payments. It's bizarre that they claim they can't see the source when it's their own payment system.
Glad I could suggest something helpful! The IRS systems are surprisingly disconnected from each other. The department that processes payments often doesn't have access to the details of who submitted them, especially for third-party payments. When you talk to your former partner, ask specifically if their accountant might be making these payments. In my case, the accountant had set up an automated system years earlier and nobody thought to update it after our business relationship ended. Definitely check on that possibility before going through all the hassle with the IRS.
dont cash those refund checks!!! my cousin did something similar and got hit with penalties later when they fixed the system error. the irs will eventually figure it out and want all that money back with interest. just keep all the letters they send you and maybe talk to a CPA not just the regular irs people on the phone. sometimes the irs computer systems dont talk to each other and the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing.
This is good advice. I work in tax preparation, and I've seen several cases where the IRS corrected errors years later and then demanded repayment with interest and penalties. Document everything and maybe consider putting those refund amounts into a separate savings account so you have the money available if they ever come asking for it.
Just to add from someone who used to work at the IRS - the CP30A is one of the "good" notices. It means they've zeroed out a tax assessment, often due to an appeal, amended return, or correction. If your online account shows zero balance, you're completely fine. Don't waste your emergency leave on this. The IRS actually issues these notices so you have documentation that a previously assessed amount has been canceled, which is protection for you.
So what should OP do about the notice? Just ignore it? Or should he at least call when he gets back to confirm everything is okay?
If you're getting USPS Informed Delivery, can you also set up mail forwarding to someone you trust? My brother is deployed and I receive all his important mail and scan it for him. Might be worth setting that up for the future so you don't have these situations where you can only see partial documents.
You might also be dealing with a misclassification issue. Some small construction companies incorrectly treat employees as independent contractors. Did you get paystubs with tax withholdings or just straight cash payments? If they didn't withhold taxes, they might be trying to issue some weird hybrid form that doesn't make sense.
Make sure you file on time even if this isn't resolved! You can file Form 4852 as a substitute W-2 based on your best records of what you earned. If you have paystubs, bank deposits, or even a written record of hours worked Ć your hourly rate, use that to calculate your income. Then file an amended return later if needed when you get the correct W-2. Don't let their mistake cause you to miss the filing deadline!
Rajan Walker
If I could ask a CPA anything, I'd want to know about tax planning strategies that actually work for middle class people. Not the fancy stuff for millionaires, but practical ways regular people with W2 jobs and maybe a side gig can legally reduce their tax burden. Like, are FSAs and HSAs worth it? Should I be making traditional or Roth contributions? Is a 529 plan actually good or are there better ways to save for my kid's college? When is it worth itemizing vs taking the standard deduction?
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Nadia Zaldivar
ā¢This is such a good point. Most tax advice seems geared toward either really poor people qualifying for earned income credits or rich people with complex investments. What about us regular folks making between $60-120k? We need help too!
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Rajan Walker
ā¢Exactly! The middle class gets squeezed the most it seems. We make too much to qualify for many credits but not enough to benefit from fancy tax strategies with investment properties and such. I think most people in our situation just don't know what options we have available. I'd love practical advice like "if you make X amount, here are the 3 most impactful things you can do to reduce your tax bill" with actual numbers and examples. Or even a checklist of things to consider based on your life situation (married, kids, homeowner, etc).
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Lukas Fitzgerald
I'd ask a CPA about all these tax prep software options. Is TurboTax really worth the money? Are there better alternatives? And what things should I absolutely NOT try to DIY even with software help? I always worry I'm missing something major by doing my own taxes.
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Ev Luca
ā¢I switched from TurboTax to FreeTaxUSA last year and saved like $120 for basically the same service. But I'm always nervous about missing something too. Would love to know from an actual CPA what tax situations are too complex for software.
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