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Don't forget the step transaction doctrine! If you transfer LP interests to your kids and then sell the property shortly after, the IRS might collapse the transactions and treat it as if you sold the property first and then gifted the proceeds. There's no bright-line rule for how long you need to wait between transactions, but typically the longer the better. If possible, wait at least a year between transferring interests and selling the property to strengthen your position that these were separate, independent business decisions. Also, make sure any discounted valuations for LP interests are properly documented with a qualified appraisal. The IRS loves to challenge family LP discounts as being excessive.
Can you explain more about this step transaction thing? If the kids become legitimate partners with economic risk, why would the timing matter? Seems like as long as they're real partners with real rights the IRS shouldn't be able to collapse anything?
The step transaction doctrine is an IRS principle that looks at the substance over the form of a series of related transactions. Even if each step is technically legal, if the IRS determines they were pre-planned steps to achieve a tax result that wouldn't be available if done directly, they can collapse them into a single transaction. For family LP transfers specifically, if you gift LP interests to your kids and then the partnership sells the property shortly after, it can appear that the only purpose of bringing them in was to split the capital gain among more taxpayers. This is especially true if there were discussions about selling before the transfer of interests. The key is establishing that each partner has legitimate economic risk and that the transfer of interests had independent business purpose beyond just tax savings. Documentation of meetings, legitimate business reasons for the transfers, and allowing time between transactions all help demonstrate these weren't just predetermined steps in a tax avoidance scheme.
Anyone have experience using a Charitable Remainder Trust (CRT) in this scenario? I've heard you can transfer the property to a CRT, take an immediate partial tax deduction, receive income for life, and then leave what remains to charity while avoiding capital gains taxes on the appreciation. Could be another option if you're charitably inclined and want income rather than a lump sum. Don't know if it works with property held in an LP though.
Yes, a CRT can work with property held in an LP, but it gets complicated. The LP would typically distribute the property to the partners first, then the partners would contribute their interests to the CRT. The main benefit is you avoid immediate capital gains tax on the appreciation when the property is sold inside the CRT.
Just to add another option - I used a Volunteer Income Tax Assistance (VITA) program in my area to help with my ITIN application. They're free and have certified volunteers who can help prepare your tax return and ITIN application. They were authorized to certify my documents so I didn't need to mail my original passport. Google "VITA site near me" to see if there's one in your area.
That sounds like a good option! How did you find them and was there a long wait time to get an appointment? I'm wondering if they're available year-round or just during tax season?
I found my local VITA site by using the IRS's locator tool on their website - just search "VITA locator IRS" and it should come up. The wait time varies depending on the time of year. During tax season (January-April), it can be 1-2 weeks for an appointment, but they often have walk-in hours too. Most VITA sites are only open during tax season, typically January through April 15th, with some sites remaining open until October for extension filers. A few larger sites in major cities operate year-round, but they're the exception. If you're outside tax season, you might want to call ahead to check if any sites in your area are still operating.
Has anyone tried going through a Certified Acceptance Agent instead of dealing directly with the IRS? I heard they can verify your original documents on the spot so you don't have to mail anything, but I'm not sure if they charge a lot for this service.
I used a Certified Acceptance Agent last year and it was worth every penny. Paid $150 but they handled everything - verified my documents, made sure my W-7 was filled out correctly, and submitted everything together with my tax return. Got my ITIN in about 6 weeks with zero hassle. Just make sure you find one that's actually IRS-authorized! You can check on the IRS website for legitimate CAAs.
Just a heads up - make sure you're distinguishing between the extension for filing with the IRS and the deadline for providing forms to recipients. From what I understand, the January 31 deadline for giving 1099-NECs to contractors CAN'T be extended. The extension only applies to the IRS filing portion. So you're still likely facing penalties for the late recipient copies. But definitely pursue reasonable cause arguments. Document everything - the employee turnover, when you discovered the issue, and all steps taken to correct it.
Wait seriously? So even if they approve my extension request, I'm still on the hook for late penalties for not getting them to the contractors by 1/31? That's not what I was expecting at all.
Yes, that's correct. The extension for 1099-NEC forms only applies to the portion you file with the IRS, not the requirement to furnish copies to recipients by January 31. This is different from some other tax forms, and it confuses many business owners. The recipient copies were legally required to be delivered by January 31 regardless of any extension. This is because the recipients need this information to accurately prepare their own tax returns. However, documenting your reasonable cause (the employee turnover) is still important, as it may help reduce penalties through a penalty abatement request even though it won't eliminate them entirely.
Pro tip: If you end up having to pay penalties, make sure you understand how they're calculated for 1099-NEC forms. The penalties are PER FORM and increase the later you file: $50 per form if you file within 30 days of the due date $110 per form if you file more than 30 days late but before August 1 $280 per form if you file on or after August 1 or don't file at all And those are for "unintentional" failures. If the IRS decides you intentionally disregarded the requirements, it jumps to $570 per form! With 40 forms, that adds up fast. Get those forms out ASAP to minimize the damage.
The IRS rarely hits people with the "intentional disregard" penalty though - that's usually reserved for repeat offenders or when there's evidence you were deliberately trying to avoid your obligations. As long as you're making a genuine effort to correct the situation now, you'll likely just face the standard penalties.
I think we're missing something important here - there's a difference between deliberate fraud and confusion about complex requirements. I run a small business and the post-Wayfair landscape is INSANELY complicated. We have 50 states with different thresholds, different tax rates, different filing schedules, different product taxability rules... it's a nightmare. Many small businesses are just trying to comply but don't have the resources to really understand all the requirements. Some tax software encourages collecting everywhere "just to be safe" not realizing it creates a liability to file and remit. I've even had customers in states where I don't meet Economic Nexus get upset when I DON'T charge them tax because they think I'm doing something wrong! Before assuming fraud, consider how absolutely broken and complex our interstate sales tax system has become.
This is so true! I accidentally collected tax in Nevada for 6 months when I didn't need to because my shopping cart software defaulted to it. When I realized the mistake, I had to FIND all those customers and issue refunds because I couldn't remit the tax without registering, and I didn't want to register since I was below the threshold. The whole system is a mess.
Exactly! And many businesses don't even realize that collecting the tax creates the obligation to file returns, even if you're below the Economic Nexus threshold. So they think they're being "extra compliant" by collecting tax everywhere, not understanding they're creating filing obligations in states where they wouldn't otherwise have them. The real problem is we need a simplified national approach instead of this patchwork of state requirements. Until then, I don't think we should jump to assuming fraud when confusion and software limitations are much more likely explanations.
Has anyone considered that some businesses might be charging you "sales tax" that's actually something else? I ordered from a small company that added a 6% charge labeled as "tax" but when I looked closer at the invoice it was actually listed as a "regulatory compliance fee" in the fine print. Totally legal apparently but super misleading.
OMG I've seen this too! A site charged me 7.25% "tax" but the receipt called it a "marketplace facilitation fee" in the itemized breakdown. When I called them out they said it covers their costs for tax compliance software. Shady AF but apparently not illegal as long as they don't explicitly call it "sales tax" in their accounting.
Yeah it seems like there's this gray area where they can call something a "tax" or "fee" to the customer but as long as they account for it differently in their books, they're technically not committing tax fraud. Still feels deceptive though. I started looking more carefully at receipts after that experience and found several small businesses doing similar things. One even had a 5% "interstate regulatory compliance fee" that was grouped with the tax on the checkout page but separated in the final receipt. Consumers would never notice unless they scrutinized the itemized receipt.
Connor Rupert
Don't forget about per diem rates! If you travel frequently for your vending business, using the standard meal per diem rates can be WAY easier than keeping all those food receipts. You still only get to deduct 50% of the per diem amount, but it significantly reduces your record-keeping burden. The rates vary by location, and you can find the current rates on the GSA website. For 2023, most locations have a standard meal per diem of $59, but high-cost areas can be up to $79 or more per day.
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Molly Hansen
ā¢Can you use per diem for just some trips and actual receipts for others? Or once you choose a method, do you have to stick with it for the whole year?
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Connor Rupert
ā¢You can absolutely mix methods throughout the tax year. You can use per diem for some trips and actual receipts for others. The only requirement is consistency within each individual business trip. So, for a 3-day convention in Chicago, you need to use either per diem OR actual receipts for that entire trip - you can't switch methods mid-trip. But for your next event in a different city, you could use the other method.
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Brady Clean
What about when you take potential clients out to dinner? I do vending at trade shows and sometimes take potential booth renters out to discuss business. Is that still 50% or is it something else? Also, is there a limit to how much you can spend per person?
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Ruby Blake
ā¢Client meals are still subject to the 50% limitation. There's no specific dollar limit per person, but deductions need to be "reasonable" in the eyes of the IRS - so a $500 meal for one client might raise eyebrows during an audit. Make sure you document the specific business purpose of these meals, who attended, and what business topics were discussed. Without that documentation, the IRS could disallow the entire deduction, even the 50% portion.
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