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If you can't wait to get the certified letter, you might want to check if your post office offers "informed delivery" which lets you see scanned images of your mail online. Might at least let you confirm if it's from the IRS before you panic too much. Also, if you're really tight on money, call the Taxpayer Advocate Service at 877-777-4778. They can sometimes intervene in hardship cases, especially if you're at risk of not being able to afford basic living expenses because of the tax debt. They're separate from regular IRS collections and can sometimes be more helpful.
I didn't know about Informed Delivery! Just checked and my post office does offer it, but it takes a few days to set up so probably won't help with this letter. But thanks for the TAS number - I'll definitely call them if I can't work something out with the regular IRS line. I'm definitely in hardship territory right now, so maybe they can help me out.
One thing I learned when dealing with a tax lien - DON'T ignore that certified letter! The clock on your appeal rights starts ticking from when they ATTEMPT delivery, not when you actually get it. I think you have 30 days to request a Collection Due Process hearing, which can stop the lien while you work things out. Also, if you get the lien notice and then pay in full, make sure to specifically request a lien WITHDRAWAL not just a release. A release just shows it's paid but stays on your credit report, a withdrawal makes it like it never existed. Huge difference for your credit score!
Something important that hasn't been mentioned: once approved for the Form 4361 exemption, you're permanently opting out of Social Security benefits based on those earnings! I've seen people file this form without realizing they're giving up retirement benefits. Also, the IRS is very strict about the timing. You must file by the due date of your tax return for the second year in which you had self-employment earnings of $400+ from ministerial services. Miss that window and you're permanently required to pay self-employment tax, no exceptions.
That's really important info, thank you! So even if I did qualify (which I now understand I don't since I'm not a practitioner), filing Form 4361 would mean giving up all future Social Security retirement benefits? That seems like a major decision that shouldn't be taken lightly.
Yes, that's correct - but with an important clarification. Filing Form 4361 means you'd be exempt from paying self-employment tax on your earnings from ministerial services, and consequently, those specific earnings wouldn't count toward your Social Security benefits. However, if you have other employment where you pay Social Security taxes (like a second job), those earnings would still count toward your benefits. Many people misunderstand and think it's an all-or-nothing situation, but it only applies to the income from your religious services. It's still a significant decision though, especially if ministry is your primary income source.
Just a heads up, the IRS is VERY specific about who qualifies as a "Christian Science practitioner" for Form 4361. You need to be listed in the Christian Science Journal as a practitioner or be a commissioned Christian Science reader. They will verify this! It's not just about attending services or being a member of the church.
This is accurate. My cousin tried to claim this exemption as a devout Christian Scientist who occasionally counseled church members, but his application was rejected because he wasn't officially listed in the Journal. The IRS doesn't mess around with these religious exemptions.
Something important that hasn't been mentioned yet - make sure you're maintaining separate accounting for this. Even though the loan is physically combined with your home mortgage, you should track the business portion separately in your books. I recommend creating an amortization schedule that shows exactly how much interest is attributed to the business portion each year. Also remember that when you sell your home eventually, having part of your mortgage classified as business debt might create complications. You might need to recapture some depreciation if you've been deducting home office expenses too.
I hadn't thought about the implications for when I eventually sell my home. Do you have any suggestions for how to properly account for this now so I don't create problems down the road?
You should maintain a completely separate amortization schedule just for the business portion of the loan. Track principal and interest payments specifically for that $150k portion each year. This becomes especially important if you sell your home before that portion is paid off. When you do sell your home, you'll need to clearly identify how much of the remaining mortgage is attributable to the business. Your tax professional should then help you determine if there are any tax consequences related to that business portion during the home sale. The key is having clean, separate records from day one.
Has anyone here used QuickBooks to track the separate business portion of a home mortgage like OP is describing? I'm trying to figure out the best way to set it up so my records are clean without making my bookkeeping overly complicated.
I do this in QuickBooks. Create two separate liability accounts - one for the personal portion of your mortgage and one for the business portion. Then split your mortgage payment between the two accounts each month using the amortization schedules. For the business portion, the interest gets coded as business interest expense and the principal as payment to the business liability account.
I'm a small business owner with rental properties too. My CPA charges $1,100 for the business return (1120S) and $2,400 for my personal with two rental properties. Based in a medium-cost-of-living area. The accounting work charge does seem high if your books are really as clean as you say. I'd question that part specifically. One thing to consider - even though you're a CPA, a good tax preparer might be catching things you're not. Tax laws are constantly changing, and there might be specialized deductions or strategies they're implementing that justify some of that cost. Have you asked them to walk through exactly what value they're providing?
Thanks for sharing your rates - that's helpful perspective. I've been hesitant to ask for a breakdown of their work because I don't want to come across as difficult, but I think I need to have that conversation. You're right that tax laws change constantly. Did your CPA provide any kind of value explanation when they quoted their fee, or did you have to ask specifically?
My CPA provides an annual "tax planning letter" that outlines specific strategies they've implemented and potential opportunities for the following year. I didn't get this initially - I had to specifically ask for a breakdown of value after questioning a fee increase three years ago. After that conversation, they started providing this document automatically. It's been eye-opening to see exactly what they're doing beyond basic compliance. For example, they found a cost segregation opportunity on one of my rental properties that saved me about $8,000 in taxes, which more than covered their fee. I'd definitely recommend asking for something similar to better understand what you're paying for.
Have you considered using tax software instead? I have a small business (LLC) and two rental properties, and I use TurboTax Business. It costs me under $200 all in. Since you're already a CPA with Big4 experience, you probably have enough knowledge to handle it yourself and save thousands.
This is terrible advice for someone with a medical practice S-corp and multiple properties. The tax code complexity and audit risk are significantly higher than for a simple LLC. DIY software might miss specialized deductions, credits, or compliance requirements that would cost far more than professional preparation fees.
I appreciate your perspective, but I've been doing this successfully for 7 years with no issues. My situation is actually quite complex with multiple state filings and specialized business deductions. You're right that a medical practice S-corp has additional considerations, but someone with Big4 accounting experience likely has the knowledge to navigate those issues. I wasn't suggesting this approach for everyone, just offering an alternative given the OP's professional background. The potential savings of $5,000+ annually might be worth considering, especially since they're already doing most of the accounting work.
Kennedy Morrison
Quick tip: If it's a public university, check their W-9 form which is often available on their procurement or vendor relations website. Almost all universities make their W-9 available online for vendors who need to pay them, and it has their EIN right at the top. Just google "[university name] W-9" and you'll probably find it in seconds. Saved me tons of headache when dealing with a similar situation for my continuing education courses.
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Wesley Hallow
β’Omg thank you! I just found my school's W-9 online exactly where you said it would be. Honestly why wouldn't the administration just tell me this instead of giving me the runaround for weeks?!
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Kennedy Morrison
β’Most university staff just aren't trained well on tax questions - they get focused on their specific department responsibilities and don't think about the bigger picture. It's frustrating but pretty common across higher education. Another tip is that the procurement office or accounts payable department will almost always know where to find the W-9 and EIN info if you can't locate it online. They deal with these requests from vendors constantly.
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Justin Chang
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I think you might be eligible for the Lifetime Learning Credit even without the 1098-T? It's meant for exactly this type of continuing education and certificate programs. As long as you have proof you paid tuition to an eligible educational institution you should be able to claim it.
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Grace Thomas
β’You're right about the Lifetime Learning Credit being usable for certificate programs, but TurboTax and other tax software still require you to enter the school's EIN to process the credit. The IRS technically requires the EIN of the educational institution for any education credit claim.
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