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This is such a helpful discussion! I'm dealing with a similar situation with my sister's ABLE account. Based on everything shared here, it sounds like the consensus is that W-2 third party sick pay doesn't qualify for the additional ABLE contribution beyond the $18k limit. The key distinction seems to be that while sick pay counts as "earned income" for many tax purposes, the ABLE additional contribution provision specifically targets current employment as a work incentive. The "earning wages" language in state forms appears to reflect this narrower federal intent. @Alice Coleman - that's a great point about exploring minimal employment options! Even small amounts of actual wages could unlock that additional contribution space. For someone receiving $22.5k in sick pay, adding even $5k in actual earned income could provide significant additional tax-advantaged savings opportunities. Has anyone here actually tried making the additional contribution with only sick pay income and had issues, or is this all based on guidance and interpretations? I'm curious if there are any real-world examples of problems arising.
Great summary of the discussion! I haven't personally tried making the additional contribution with only sick pay, but I did speak with my state's ABLE program administrator about a similar situation last year. They were pretty clear that they follow the federal guidance requiring "compensation from employment" rather than just any earned income. What's interesting is that they mentioned they don't actively audit the source of additional contributions when they're made, but if there was ever an IRS examination, the burden would be on the account holder to prove the income qualified. Given that sick pay is specifically excluded in most interpretations, it could create problems down the road even if the contribution was initially accepted. @Alice Coleman s'suggestion about minimal employment is really smart - even freelance or gig work that generates a small 1099 could potentially qualify, as long as it s'actual compensation for services performed rather than disability benefits.
I appreciate everyone sharing their experiences and research on this topic. Based on all the discussion here, it seems pretty clear that W-2 third party sick pay wouldn't qualify for the additional ABLE contribution beyond the $18k annual limit. What strikes me is how this highlights a gap in the tax code - your nephew is receiving substantial income ($22.5k annually) that counts as earned income for IRAs and tax credits, but doesn't qualify for this particular benefit because it's not from current employment. The legislative intent behind the ABLE to Work provision was clearly to incentivize employment, but it does create these edge cases. Given the cost and uncertainty involved, I'd recommend against pursuing the private letter ruling unless the potential tax savings significantly exceed that $12k cost. Instead, maximizing the standard $18k ABLE contribution plus the $7k Roth IRA contribution gives you $25k in annual tax-advantaged savings space, which is still substantial. The suggestion about exploring minimal employment opportunities is worth considering if your nephew is able to work even part-time. Even $3-4k in actual wages could unlock that additional contribution space while providing other benefits like maintaining work skills and social connections.
Dont panic! I went thru this last yr. Just be organized, respond on time, and stay on top of any followup letters. And def get a tax pro if its complicated.
I've been through a similar situation! Your 2024 refund shouldn't be automatically held up just because you have an open 2022 audit - they're separate tax years. However, the IRS might take a closer look at your 2024 return if there are patterns they're investigating from 2022. My advice: Don't delay filing your 2024 taxes. File on time and separately handle the 2022 audit. The key is responding to that March 26th deadline with complete documentation. I'd also suggest calling the IRS practitioner priority line if you have a tax pro helping you, or the regular taxpayer line to confirm they received your response once you send it. One thing that helped me was creating a timeline of all correspondence and keeping detailed records of what I sent and when. The online account tracking is helpful but sometimes lags behind actual processing.
This is really helpful advice! I'm new to dealing with audits and wasn't sure if I should wait to file my 2024 return. Good to know they're treated separately. Did you end up getting your refund for the current year while your audit was still ongoing? Also, how long did it take for the IRS to actually process your audit response once you sent everything in?
Just want to add something nobody's mentioned yet - if your LLC has high profit margins, you might actually benefit from changing your tax election from S-Corp to Schedule C sole proprietor. As a sole prop, you can contribute up to 20% of your net self-employment income as employer contributions, which could potentially be higher than the S-Corp 25% of W-2 wages if you're keeping your salary low to save on employment taxes.
That's interesting - I hadn't considered that angle. But wouldn't I end up paying more in self-employment taxes as a Schedule C that would offset the higher retirement contribution benefits?
Yes, you'd pay more in self-employment taxes as a Schedule C, so it's definitely a trade-off. Every dollar of business profit would be subject to self-employment tax, whereas with an S-Corp, only your W-2 wages are subject to employment taxes. It really comes down to running the numbers both ways. If maximizing retirement contributions is your primary goal, Schedule C might work better despite higher SE taxes. But if overall tax minimization is the goal, S-Corp usually wins. Most people find the S-Corp advantage outweighs the slightly lower retirement contribution potential, but it depends on your specific situation and priorities.
As someone who just went through this exact calculation for my own single-member LLC S-Corp, I can confirm what others have said - the 25% employer contribution is based on your W-2 wages ($13,500 in your case), giving you a maximum of $3,375 for the profit sharing portion. One thing I learned the hard way though is timing. Make sure you get your employer contributions in by the tax filing deadline (including extensions) for the tax year. Employee contributions have to be made by December 31st, but employer profit sharing contributions can be made up until you file your return. Also, since you mentioned you have about $35k in net profit ($42k revenue minus $7k expenses), you might want to consider increasing your W-2 salary. The IRS expects "reasonable compensation" and $13.5k seems pretty low relative to your business income. Increasing your salary would also allow for higher retirement contributions, though you'd pay more in employment taxes. It's worth running the numbers both ways.
This is really helpful timing information! I had no idea about the different deadlines for employee vs employer contributions. So just to make sure I understand - if I'm filing my 2024 return in April 2025, I could still make the employer profit sharing contribution for 2024 up until April 15th (or later if I file an extension), but any employee contributions for 2024 would have had to be made by December 31st, 2024? Also, regarding the reasonable compensation point - is there a safe harbor rule or specific guidance on what percentage of net profit should be paid as W-2 wages? I chose $13.5k somewhat arbitrarily and want to make sure I'm not setting myself up for issues with the IRS.
Has anyone mentioned the mortgage fraud aspect? I'm a mortgage underwriter, and we absolutely pull tax transcripts directly from the IRS for self-employed borrowers. We also request business bank statements and analyze deposits. If your friend applies for a mortgage showing business income that doesn't match their tax returns, or if their loan statements show debt obligations that don't align with their credit report, it will 100% trigger a fraud alert in our system. Then we're required to file a SAR (Suspicious Activity Report) with FinCEN, which shares information with other federal agencies including the SBA. This happens even if we deny the loan. So even if they somehow avoided detection until now, the mortgage application process could be what finally exposes everything.
This situation is beyond alarming. As someone who's dealt with IRS compliance issues for years, I need to emphasize that your friend has created a perfect storm of federal violations that will almost certainly be discovered. The IRS and SBA have been sharing data extensively since 2020. When your friend files their actual 2022 return showing no estimated payments, it will automatically be cross-referenced against their SBA loan applications. The IRS has sophisticated algorithms that flag these exact discrepancies. What makes this worse is the timing - they're planning major financial moves (marriage, home purchase) right when scrutiny is highest. Mortgage lenders now use automated systems that compare tax transcripts, bank statements, and existing loan obligations. Any inconsistencies trigger immediate fraud alerts. The "small business won't get audited" assumption is dead wrong. The SBA Inspector General has dramatically increased fraud investigations, especially for loans taken during economic downturns. They're specifically targeting cases with falsified tax documents. Your friend needs to understand: this isn't going away. The federal government has invested billions in fraud detection systems specifically designed to catch this type of scheme. Making payments on time doesn't eliminate the crime - it just delays discovery. They need a federal criminal defense attorney immediately. Not next week, not after they tell their spouse - now. Every day they wait makes their position worse and limits their options for potential cooperation agreements. This is career-ending, marriage-ending, and potentially freedom-ending serious.
This is absolutely sobering to read. The data sharing between agencies is something I didn't fully understand before. Is there any realistic timeline for when these automated systems typically flag discrepancies? Like are we talking weeks, months, or years before the algorithms connect the dots between the false SBA documents and the real tax filings? I'm trying to help my friend understand how urgent this really is.
The timeline can vary, but it's getting faster every year. Based on what I've seen in compliance work, the IRS typically processes and cross-references tax returns within 3-6 months of filing. However, the SBA's fraud detection systems run continuous background checks on active loans. What's particularly concerning for your friend is that they're planning to file their 2022 return soon, which will immediately create a data mismatch. The automated systems flag these discrepancies within days or weeks of the tax return being processed. The mortgage application will likely trigger the fastest response - those fraud alerts go out in real-time during underwriting, sometimes within 24-48 hours of application submission. Your friend is essentially racing against multiple detection systems that are all accelerating. The window for proactive legal consultation is closing rapidly, especially if they're planning any of these major financial moves in the coming months.
Mateo Sanchez
Make sure you're considering the Form 8832 "check-the-box" implications here. A single-member LLC is automatically disregarded for US tax purposes unless you elect to have it treated as a corporation by filing Form 8832. Sometimes it's actually beneficial to elect corporate treatment for a foreign-owned LLC to simplify reporting and avoid certain direct ownership issues, even though it creates a separate taxable entity. The French investor should also check with a French tax advisor since the French tax treatment of the LLC might not match the US treatment.
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Aisha Mahmood
ā¢This is really important! France might not recognize the disregarded entity concept the same way the US does. I had a client from Paris with a similar structure and the French tax authorities treated the LLC as a separate entity regardless of the US tax classification, creating a huge reporting headache.
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Laila Prince
This is exactly the kind of complex international tax situation where you really need specialized expertise. I've dealt with similar French investment structures and there are several additional considerations beyond just the treaty withholding rates. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the potential French wealth tax (IFI) implications. If the mother is a French tax resident, her ownership in US real estate through the LLC structure could trigger French wealth tax obligations, even if she doesn't directly own the real estate LLC partnership you mentioned. Also, consider the timing of distributions. The US-France treaty has specific tie-breaker rules for determining tax residence that could affect the treaty benefits if there's any question about her French residency status. Make sure she maintains clear documentation of her French tax residency. Given the substantial investment amount you mentioned, I'd strongly recommend getting a formal opinion from someone who specializes in US-France tax matters before finalizing the structure. The cost of proper planning upfront will be much less than trying to unwind a problematic structure later, especially with the recent changes to international reporting requirements. The suggestions about getting direct IRS guidance are also solid - having official confirmation of how they'll view the structure can provide valuable certainty for everyone involved.
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