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For those who want a quick rule of thumb, many CPAs suggest salary should be at least 1/3 of S Corp distributions for service-based businesses. So if you want to take $90k in distributions, your salary should be at least $30k. This isn't foolproof but supposedly comes from patterns in what triggers IRS scrutiny. Just passing along what my CPA told me!
That's dangerously low for most service businesses. The IRS has successfully challenged many cases where owners took less than 50% as salary. Your "rule of thumb" might work for businesses with significant non-owner revenue sources, but risky for consultants, professionals, etc.
You're right that it depends entirely on the business type. I should have been clearer that mine is actually a retail business where much of the profit comes from product sales rather than my direct services. The 1/3 ratio works in my specific situation because I have employees doing most of the work and significant inventory investment. For service professionals like consultants, lawyers, doctors, etc., you're absolutely right that the ratio needs to be much higher, probably closer to 70-80% salary.
The confusion around S Corp profit distribution formulas is totally understandable - there really isn't one "correct" equation because the IRS deliberately keeps "reasonable compensation" somewhat subjective. What I've found helpful is thinking of it in terms of what you'd pay to replace yourself. If your S Corp couldn't function without you, then most of the profit should probably be salary. But if you've built systems, have employees, or significant capital investments generating revenue, you can justify a higher distribution percentage. A practical approach: Start with market salary data for your role/industry (sites like PayScale, Glassdoor, or BLS.gov), then adjust based on your actual hours worked and responsibilities. Document your reasoning - if the IRS ever questions it, you want to show you made a good faith effort to be reasonable. One thing that's helped me is tracking what percentage of revenue comes directly from my personal work versus other factors (equipment, employees, systems, etc.). The higher your personal contribution, the higher your salary should be relative to distributions.
This is really helpful advice, especially the part about documenting your reasoning. I'm new to S Corp elections and have been paralyzed by analysis trying to find the "perfect" formula. Your approach of starting with market data and then adjusting based on actual contribution makes so much more sense than trying to find some magic percentage. I like the idea of tracking what percentage of revenue comes from my personal work - that seems like concrete documentation I could maintain. Do you keep any specific records or is it more of a general assessment? I want to make sure I'm prepared if questions ever come up.
don't forget about quarterly estimated taxes for both federal AND state if your self employed!! i totally messed this up my first year and got hit with underpayment penalties from both. even if you end up owing $0 to your state at the end of the year, you might still need to make estimated payments throughout the year based on what you EXPECT to owe.
How much do you have to make before you need to do the quarterly payments? Is there a threshold?
Generally, you need to make quarterly estimated payments if you expect to owe $1,000 or more in federal taxes for the year. For state taxes, it varies by state but most follow a similar threshold - usually somewhere between $500-$1,000 owed for the year. The tricky part with self-employment is that you might hit these thresholds even with relatively modest income because of the 15.3% self-employment tax. With $19,400 in income like the original poster mentioned, they'd likely need to make quarterly payments for federal (SE tax alone would be around $2,740), but state requirements would depend on their specific state's rules and deductions. @975948ffccbc is absolutely right about the penalties - they can really add up if you miss the quarterly deadlines!
Great question! You're absolutely correct that states don't have their own version of the federal self-employment tax. With your $19,400 in income, here's what you need to know: For state income tax, it really depends on your state's specific thresholds and standard deduction amounts. Many states have standard deductions that could potentially bring your taxable income below their filing threshold, especially after you deduct legitimate business expenses from your freelance work. However, don't forget that you'll still owe federal self-employment tax on that $19,400 (minus any business deductions) regardless of whether you owe state income tax. The SE tax is about 15.3% on your net self-employment income, so that's roughly $2,740-$3,000 you'll need to plan for federally. My advice: calculate your net profit after business expenses first, then check your state's specific income tax brackets and standard deduction amounts. Even if you end up owing $0 in state income tax, you're right that you'll still need to file a state return in most cases. Also consider setting aside money for quarterly estimated tax payments next year - both federal and state if applicable - to avoid underpayment penalties!
Just to make sure we're all on the same page here - are we talking about claiming her as a qualifying relative dependent, not a qualifying child dependent? Because the rules are different for each, right? For a qualifying relative, her gross income must be less than $4,700 (for 2023), but Social Security benefits generally don't count toward this amount unless she has significant other income. Did I understand your situation correctly?
You're absolutely correct - you do NOT report her SSDI on your tax return. Her disability income remains her income, not yours. The fact that you're claiming her as a dependent doesn't change whose income it is. As long as she meets the qualifying relative tests (gross income under $4,700 excluding SSDI, and you provide more than half her support), you're compliant. Keep good records of your support expenses - housing, food, medical costs, utilities, etc. - in case you need to prove the support test later. The IRS is pretty clear on this in Publication 501, but I understand why it can be confusing at first!
This is really helpful clarification! I'm new to this dependency situation and was worried I'd made a mistake. Just to confirm my understanding - when you say "keep good records of support expenses," should I be tracking everything down to grocery receipts and utility bills? I want to make sure I'm documenting the right things in case the IRS ever questions the support test calculation.
Yes, you should definitely keep detailed records! I'd recommend tracking: housing costs (rent/mortgage portion attributable to her), utilities (her share), groceries specifically for her, medical expenses you pay, clothing, transportation costs, etc. You don't need every single receipt, but having monthly summaries with supporting documentation is smart. I use a simple spreadsheet that breaks down categories by month - makes it easy to show I'm providing over 50% of her total support. The IRS worksheet in Pub 501 gives you a good framework for what expenses to track.
Another option to consider is volunteer work that pays a small stipend. Some organizations like AARP Tax-Aide, AmeriCorps Seniors, or local nonprofits offer volunteer positions with modest compensation that could count toward Social Security credits. My neighbor earned her final quarters through a part-time position with her county's senior services program - she helped other seniors navigate government benefits and earned just enough to qualify for her remaining credits. The work was meaningful and the hours were flexible, which might appeal to your mom more than traditional part-time employment. You might also want to double-check her existing earnings record with SSA to make sure all 36 quarters are properly credited. Sometimes there are errors or missing quarters from years past that could reduce the number she actually needs to earn.
That's a great suggestion about volunteer work with stipends! I hadn't thought about that option. The idea of checking her existing earnings record is really smart too - I'm wondering if we should use one of those services mentioned earlier like taxr.ai to analyze her current record before she starts trying to earn new quarters. It would be awful to have her work for months only to find out there was an error in her existing record that could have been corrected instead. Plus, if there are any discrepancies, it might be easier to fix those than to earn entirely new quarters through employment. @Lauren Johnson - do you know roughly how much those volunteer stipend positions typically pay? We d'want to make sure it s'enough to actually qualify for the quarterly credits.
One thing worth mentioning is that your mom should be careful about how she structures any property management income. If she's going to report self-employment income for property management, she needs to make sure it's legitimate business activity and not just a way to get Social Security credits. The IRS looks for actual services being performed - things like advertising vacant units, screening tenants, collecting rent, coordinating maintenance and repairs, handling tenant complaints, etc. She should keep detailed records of time spent and activities performed. Just paying herself an arbitrary amount without corresponding work could raise red flags. Also, remember that self-employment income means she'll pay both the employee and employer portions of Social Security tax (15.3% total), so factor that into whether it makes financial sense compared to other options like part-time work where the employer would pay half. Given that she's a widow already receiving survivor benefits, I'd definitely recommend getting a benefit estimate from SSA first to see if earning those 4 quarters would actually result in higher monthly payments before going through the effort.
This is excellent advice about the legitimate business activity requirement. I've seen people get into trouble with the IRS for trying to manufacture self-employment income just to qualify for benefits. One thing to add - if your mom does decide to go the property management route, she might want to consider getting a business license and liability insurance to further legitimize the activity. This would also protect her if tenants have issues or accidents occur during property management activities. The point about the 15.3% self-employment tax is crucial too. At $1,900 per quarter, she'd owe about $291 in self-employment tax each quarter, which adds up. Compare that to a part-time job where she'd only pay 7.65% and the employer covers the rest. @Hunter Brighton - you re'absolutely right about getting that benefit estimate first. It would be frustrating to go through all this work only to find out the increase in monthly benefits doesn t'justify the time and tax costs involved.
Hunter Brighton
My accountant told me that the 1099-NEC deadline is actually one of the most enforced deadlines because it's tied to refund fraud prevention. The January 31st deadline was specifically moved up to give the IRS time to match income records before issuing refunds to taxpayers. I learned this the hard way after getting a $1,400 penalty notice for filing my 8 contractor forms 2 months late last year. Definitely not worth the risk just to save a bit of time.
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Dylan Baskin
ā¢Was the penalty exactly $1,400 or was it calculated per form? Just trying to figure out what I might be looking at for my business. We have about 12 contractors.
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Ella Knight
As someone who runs a small consulting firm with about 20 contractors, I can confirm that the IRS does enforce the January 31st deadline pretty consistently. We got hit with penalties two years ago when our bookkeeper was out sick and we filed everything in mid-February instead. The penalty structure mentioned by Jay is accurate - it was $50 per form for us since we were within 30 days. What really caught us off guard was that the penalties applied even though all our contractors had received their copies on time via email. The IRS deadline is specifically about when THEY receive the forms, not when you send them to contractors. Since then, we've been using e-filing which makes the deadline much more manageable. Most payroll software can handle 1099s now, or you can use the IRS FIRE system directly if you're comfortable with it. The key is starting the process in early January rather than waiting until the last minute - gathering all the contractor information and verifying addresses/TINs always takes longer than expected. For what it's worth, the enforcement has definitely gotten stricter over the past few years. I think the IRS is treating this as a priority area since it helps them catch unreported income.
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Javier Torres
ā¢This is really helpful to know about the distinction between contractor copies and IRS copies! I had no idea the penalties applied even when contractors got their forms on time. Quick question - when you mention using payroll software for 1099s, do most of the popular ones handle the IRS e-filing automatically, or do you still need to submit separately? I'm currently using a basic payroll system but might need to upgrade if it means avoiding those penalties.
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