


Ask the community...
Don't forget that even if you qualify for First Time Abatement, it only applies to certain penalties! It works for failure-to-file, failure-to-pay, and failure-to-deposit penalties. It won't help with accuracy-related penalties, fraud penalties, or estimated tax penalties. Also, it's a one-time deal for each type of penalty. So if you get the FTA for a failure-to-file penalty this year, you can't get another one for failure-to-file in the future. But you might still qualify for an FTA on a different type of penalty later.
Well crap, I already used my FTA for a missed estimated tax payment in 2022. Does that mean I'm totally out of luck for getting my current late filing penalty removed?
Actually, you might still have options! First Time Abatement is available separately for different penalty types. So if you used FTA for an estimated tax penalty in 2022, you should still be eligible for FTA on failure-to-file or failure-to-pay penalties since those are different categories. The IRS tracks FTA usage by penalty type, not as a single overall benefit. So you could potentially get FTA relief for your current late filing penalty even though you used it for estimated tax penalties before. I'd definitely call or submit a request - worst case they say no, but there's a good chance you're still eligible for this different penalty type.
Douglas, you're definitely in a good position for First Time Abatement with 8 years of clean filing history! I successfully got my penalties waived last year using this exact process. Here's what worked for me: I called the IRS directly using the number on my penalty notice and specifically asked for "First Time Abatement relief." The rep was able to pull up my compliance history right there and approved the request on the spot. My $620 in penalties were removed immediately from my account. The key is being very clear about what you're requesting - don't just say you want penalty relief, specifically mention "First Time Abatement" or "FTA." The IRS reps are familiar with this program and can process it quickly if you qualify. Since you mentioned the payment deadline is next month, I'd recommend calling rather than mailing Form 843, as the written process can take 8-12 weeks. With your clean history, you should have no problem getting approved. Just be prepared for potentially long hold times when calling - early morning (8 AM EST) tends to be the best time to get through. Good luck! With your track record, this should be pretty straightforward.
This is really encouraging to hear! Quick question - when you called, did they ask for any specific documentation or proof of your compliance history? I'm worried they might want me to provide copies of old returns or something I don't have readily available. Also, did you have to pay anything upfront while waiting for the decision, or were you able to hold off on the penalty portion?
Make sure you're calculating your SEP contribution correctly! It's not 20% of your gross business income, but rather about 20% of your net self-employment income AFTER deducting half of your self-employment tax. This tripped me up my first year. If your side hustle brings in $27k revenue but you have $7k in legitimate business expenses, your net profit is $20k. Then you have to account for self-employment tax in the calculation. There are calculators online that can help with the exact math.
Thanks for this! I definitely would have calculated it wrong. Do most tax software programs handle this calculation automatically?
Most major tax software like TurboTax, H&R Block, and TaxAct do handle the SEP IRA contribution calculation automatically when you enter your self-employment income and expenses. They'll walk you through the Schedule SE for self-employment tax and then calculate your maximum allowable SEP contribution. Just make sure you're using the business version of the software since the basic personal versions might not have all the self-employment features you need. The software will also help you avoid accidentally over-contributing, which can result in penalties.
This is a great question that I see come up a lot! The short answer is yes - you can absolutely contribute to a SEP IRA even with a maxed out employer 401k, since they're treated as completely separate retirement plans. One thing to keep in mind is that you'll need to make sure you're tracking your self-employment income and expenses carefully throughout the year. The SEP contribution is based on your net self-employment income, so good record-keeping will help you maximize your contribution when tax time comes. Also consider opening the SEP IRA sooner rather than later, even if you don't contribute right away. Some brokerages have account minimums or waiting periods, and you want to have it ready when you're ready to make your contribution for the tax year. The tax benefits are definitely worth it - you're essentially getting a deduction that reduces both your regular income tax and your self-employment tax burden from the business income.
This is really helpful advice! I'm curious about the timing aspect you mentioned. If I open a SEP IRA now but don't contribute until I file my taxes next year, can I still get the tax deduction for this current tax year? Or do I need to make the actual contribution before December 31st? I'm asking because I want to make sure I have enough cash flow from the business before committing to a specific contribution amount, but I also don't want to miss out on tax benefits if there are timing restrictions.
Just to add another perspective - don't forget about Qualified Business Income deduction (Section 199A) in your calculations. If your business becomes profitable in future years, you might be eligible for up to a 20% deduction on your qualified business income. If you push too many deductions into future profitable years through depreciation, you might inadvertently reduce your QBI deduction. Sometimes it's better to take the hit now when you're showing a loss, especially if your W-2 income puts you in a decent tax bracket already.
Good point about QBI. I think it really depends on what tax bracket your W-2 income puts you in now vs what you expect your combined income to be later. Have you used any specific tax planning tools to model this out?
As someone who's been through this exact scenario with my freelance graphic design business, I'd recommend being really strategic about this decision. You're in a unique position where you can use the business loss to offset your W-2 income, which could save you significant money this year. One thing I learned the hard way is to keep meticulous records showing your profit motive - the IRS hobby loss rules are real and they do scrutinize new businesses showing losses. Document your business plan, marketing efforts, client outreach, etc. This becomes especially important if you show losses for multiple years. For the equipment strategy, I'd suggest looking at which items are likely to become obsolete quickly (software, some electronics) versus durable goods (quality microphones, mixing boards). Consider fully expensing the items that depreciate rapidly in real-world value while using regular depreciation for equipment that will serve you for many years. Also, make sure you're capturing all possible business deductions - home office space, business use of your car for client meetings, professional development, etc. These can add up and help justify the business nature of your activities to the IRS. The royalty income on Schedule C makes perfect sense given that it's the same type of work as your current business. This actually strengthens your case that this is a legitimate business continuation rather than a new hobby.
This is really comprehensive advice! I'm especially interested in your point about documenting profit motive. What specific types of documentation did you find most helpful? I've been keeping receipts and tracking income/expenses, but I'm wondering if I should be doing more to show this is a legitimate business operation. Also, when you mention business use of car for client meetings - how do you handle that when most of your work is done remotely? I do occasionally travel to recording sessions or meet with other musicians, but it's not super frequent.
5 Side question related to this: I filed 83(b) election for restricted stock (not options) last year. My stock is on a 4-year vesting schedule, but I'm thinking of leaving the company after only 2 years. What happens to the taxes I already paid on unvested shares if I forfeit them when I leave?
10 Unfortunately, if you forfeit unvested shares after filing an 83(b), you generally don't get a refund for the taxes paid on the unvested portion. That's one of the risks of filing an 83(b). You might be able to claim a capital loss on your tax return for the amount you paid for the shares, but not for the taxes you paid on the paper gain.
Great question! Yes, you're correct that your company should send you Form 3921 for the stock option exercise. Since you properly filed your 83(b) election within the 30-day window in June 2023, you've already handled the most important part. For your 2023 tax return, you'll need to report the ordinary income from the spread between your exercise price and the fair market value at the time of exercise (this should be reflected on the Form 3921). The good news is that by filing the 83(b) election, you've locked in the tax treatment - any future appreciation in the stock value won't be taxed as ordinary income when it vests. Make sure to keep copies of your 83(b) election filing and the certified mail receipt with your permanent tax records. You'll need this documentation if you're ever audited, especially when you eventually sell the shares. The 83(b) election affects your future cost basis calculation, so proper documentation is crucial. No additional forms are required specifically for the 83(b) election itself on your annual return - you just report the income from the option exercise using the information from Form 3921.
This is really helpful, thank you! I'm also dealing with stock options for the first time and wasn't sure about the documentation requirements. Just to clarify - when you mention keeping the certified mail receipt permanently, does that mean I should treat it like other important tax documents and keep it for 7+ years, or literally forever since it could affect future stock sales? Also, I'm curious about the cost basis calculation you mentioned. If I eventually sell these shares years from now, will the IRS have record of my 83(b) election, or am I solely responsible for proving I filed it correctly when calculating capital gains?
Great question about documentation! I'd recommend keeping your 83(b) election paperwork literally forever - or at least until you've completely disposed of all the shares it covers. The IRS doesn't maintain a searchable database of 83(b) elections that you can easily reference years later, so you're essentially the sole custodian of proof that you filed it properly. When you eventually sell those shares (could be 5, 10+ years down the road), you'll need to prove to the IRS that you filed the 83(b) election to justify your cost basis calculation. Without that documentation, the IRS might treat the entire sale proceeds as taxable income rather than recognizing your stepped-up basis from the election. Think of it this way: that certified mail receipt and copy of your 83(b) election could potentially save you thousands in taxes decades from now. I keep mine in the same secure location as other permanent records like birth certificates and property deeds. The potential tax savings from proving you filed the election correctly far outweigh the minor hassle of permanent storage.
Amelia Dietrich
21 Just curious - what industry are you contracting in? The best app might depend on your specific situation. For example, if you're in construction, an app that handles inventory and job materials might be different than what a freelance designer would use.
0 coins
Amelia Dietrich
ā¢1 I'm actually going to be doing marketing and social media consulting. Most of my expenses will probably be software subscriptions, office supplies, and maybe some client dinners/coffees. I won't have much inventory or materials.
0 coins
Amelia Dietrich
ā¢19 For marketing/consulting, I'd second the QuickBooks Self-Employed recommendation someone made earlier. I'm in a similar field and it handles those types of expenses perfectly. Just make sure you're clear on what client meals you can deduct - the rules changed a few years ago. Generally client meals are 50% deductible, but for 2023 many business meals were 100% deductible as part of COVID relief measures. A good app should help flag these distinctions.
0 coins
Norman Fraser
Great thread! As someone who's been contracting for a few years now, I'll add that whatever app you choose, make sure to back up your data regularly. I learned this the hard way when my phone died and I nearly lost months of receipt data. Also, don't forget about bank and credit card statements as backup documentation. Even with a great receipt app, your financial institution records can serve as additional proof of business expenses if you ever get audited. One more tip - start tracking everything from day one, even small expenses like parking meters or coffee during client meetings. Those small amounts really add up over the year, and it's much easier to develop the habit now than to try to recreate months of expenses later!
0 coins
Aiden O'Connor
ā¢This is such solid advice, especially about backing up data! I hadn't even thought about what happens if my phone breaks. Do you recommend any specific cloud backup services, or do most of these receipt apps automatically sync to the cloud? Also, that tip about tracking small expenses is eye-opening. I've been ignoring things like parking fees because they seem so minor, but you're right that they probably add up to hundreds over a year. Better to track everything and let a tax professional tell me what's deductible rather than miss out on legitimate deductions!
0 coins