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Has anyone else gotten confused about the ordering of NOL usage? My understanding is that you have to use the oldest losses first, but our tax software seems to be applying them differently.
Yes, you generally use NOLs on a FIFO basis (first in, first out), so oldest NOLs get utilized first. But there's also a distinction between pre-2018 NOLs and post-2018 NOLs because they have different rules. Pre-2018 can offset 100% of taxable income while post-2018 can only offset 80%. What tax software are you using?
I'm dealing with a similar situation as a new startup owner. One thing that helped me understand this better was realizing that Form 1120 line 29a is specifically for the NOL deduction you're claiming in the CURRENT year, not just tracking your total accumulated losses. Since you have negative taxable income again this year, you won't enter anything on line 29a because there's no positive income to offset. But you're absolutely building up your NOL carryforward balance - you'll have $42,000 from year 1 plus your new $38,000 loss from this year. The key is maintaining good records of these accumulated losses. I keep a simple schedule that tracks each year's NOL separately because when you eventually become profitable, you'll need to apply them in the correct order (oldest first) and follow the 80% limitation rule for post-2017 losses. Don't worry - you're not missing out on any tax benefits by not using the NOLs now. They'll be there waiting for you when your startup starts generating taxable income!
This is really helpful! I'm also a startup founder dealing with NOLs and was confused about the same thing. Just to clarify - when you say "maintaining good records," are you just keeping your own internal spreadsheet or is there something specific the IRS requires us to file or attach to our returns while we're accumulating these losses? I want to make sure I'm not missing any required documentation that could cause problems later when we actually start using the NOLs.
@Sean Flanagan Great question! For the IRS, you don t'need to file any special forms or attachments while you re'accumulating NOLs - the losses are already documented through your regular Form 1120 filings each year they (show up in your taxable income calculation .)However, I d'strongly recommend keeping your own detailed internal records. I maintain a spreadsheet that tracks each year s'NOL amount, the tax year it originated, and any special notes about how it was calculated. This becomes crucial later when you start applying the losses and need to show the IRS your methodology if questioned. The IRS doesn t'require specific documentation format, but having clear records helps enormously during tax prep and potential audits. I also keep copies of the relevant tax returns and financial statements that support each year s'NOL calculation. Better to over-document than scramble later when you re'finally profitable!
In addition to what others have said, make sure you're tracking ALL your expenses, not just mileage! I do all these delivery apps too and was leaving money on the table my first year. Deductible expenses: - Phone bill (% used for gig work) - Phone holder/mount for car - Hot bags (if you bought your own) - Portion of car insurance - Parking fees while waiting for orders - Dashcams (safety equipment) - Cleaning supplies for your car - Masks, hand sanitizer, etc. If you use the actual expense method instead of standard mileage rate, you can also deduct gas, maintenance, repairs, etc., but usually the standard mileage rate is better.
Wait, you can deduct hot bags? I bought like 3 different ones trying to find one that actually keeps food warm. Also, what percent of your phone bill do you usually deduct?
Yes, hot bags are definitely deductible! They're business equipment necessary for your delivery work. I deducted all three bags I bought too - keep those receipts! For phone bill percentage, I calculate it based on how much I actually use my phone for gig work versus personal use. I track my delivery hours versus total phone usage time. For me, it works out to about 30-35% since I do deliveries part-time. Some people just estimate, but I'd recommend being conservative and keeping records in case you get audited. Also don't forget phone accessories like car chargers, portable battery packs, and phone cases if you bought them specifically for delivery work!
Great thread! I went through this exact same confusion last year with DoorDash, Uber Eats, and Postmates. One thing I learned the hard way is to make sure you reconcile your bank deposits with what the platforms report. DoorDash's 1099-NEC was straightforward, but Uber's tax summary sometimes includes tips and other payments that might not match exactly with your bank records due to timing differences. I had to go through my statements month by month to make sure I wasn't missing any income or double-counting anything. Also, even though you can combine everything on one Schedule C, I'd suggest keeping a simple spreadsheet that breaks down your income by platform just for your own records. It helps you see which apps are actually worth your time and makes it easier if you ever need to answer questions about your income sources. The business code 492000 that Anastasia mentioned is spot on - that's what I used and had no issues with the IRS.
This is such helpful advice about reconciling bank deposits! I'm dealing with this exact issue right now - my Uber summary shows one amount but my actual deposits don't quite match up. Did you find any specific patterns in the timing differences? Like were tips always delayed by a certain number of days or was it more random? Also, your point about the spreadsheet breakdown is smart. I've been thinking it would help me figure out which time slots are most profitable for each app too, not just which apps overall.
I just went through this exact nightmare about 6 months ago! The IRS "lost" my Form 2553 fax too, even though I had clear transmission records from FedEx Office. It's absolutely maddening when you do everything correctly and still get caught in their processing black hole. Here's what finally worked for me after months of frustration: 1. I followed the dual submission approach everyone's mentioning - sent via both USPS certified mail with return receipt AND e-fax simultaneously. Don't do them separately like I initially tried. 2. My explanation letter was one page, very factual, and included the phrase "reasonable cause relief under IRC Section 1362(b)(5)" along with my original submission date and proof of timely filing. 3. I specifically requested written confirmation that my S-corp election would be effective retroactively to my original intended date (the LLC formation date). 4. Called the Business Entity Control department about 3 weeks later with my EIN, all relevant dates, and certified mail tracking number ready. The whole process took about 6 weeks from resubmission to getting my acceptance letter, but it did get resolved without any penalties. The key was having ironclad documentation of my original timely submission. One tip I wish someone had told me earlier - take photos of your entire certified mail package before sealing it, including the forms, explanation letter, and supporting documents. This creates additional proof of what you sent if questions come up later. Stay persistent but professional. You clearly did everything right the first time, and with proper documentation, this will get resolved!
This is exactly the kind of detailed, step-by-step guidance I needed to hear! Your experience gives me so much hope that this can actually be resolved properly. The tip about taking photos of the entire certified mail package before sealing is brilliant - I never would have thought of that but it makes perfect sense as additional documentation. I'm especially glad you mentioned that it took about 6 weeks from resubmission to acceptance letter. Having a realistic timeline helps manage expectations rather than constantly wondering if something went wrong again. The fact that you got it resolved without penalties despite all the IRS processing issues is really encouraging. Your point about being factual rather than emotional in the explanation letter is something I need to remember. It's easy to want to vent frustration about their system failures, but staying professional and focused on the facts is clearly the better approach. Thank you for sharing such a thorough account of your experience - knowing that others have successfully navigated this exact situation makes the whole process feel much less overwhelming!
I'm so sorry you're going through this - the exact same thing happened to me with my LLC's S-corp election last year! The IRS claimed they never received my Form 2553 despite having a clear fax confirmation from my local UPS Store. It's incredibly frustrating when you do everything by the book and still get caught up in their processing issues. The advice from the IRS agent you spoke with is actually spot-on. I ended up doing exactly what they recommended - sent both a fax AND certified mail with return receipt requested simultaneously. Don't make the mistake I initially did of trying just one method at a time, because they managed to "lose" my second fax submission too! Here's what I included in my package that seemed to help: - A clear, one-page explanation letter stating the original submission date (emphasizing it was within the 75-day window) - All my proof of fax transmission - A newly completed Form 2553 - A specific request for written confirmation that the election would be retroactive to my original intended effective date In my explanation letter, I referenced "reasonable cause relief under IRC Section 1362(b)(5)" - this legal citation seems to carry weight with their processing department. I also made sure to be very factual and professional rather than venting my frustration about their system failures. The whole process took about 5-6 weeks from my dual resubmission to receiving the acceptance letter, but I got it resolved with no penalties. The key was having solid documentation of my original timely filing. One tip: when you follow up by phone, specifically ask for the "Business Entity Control" department rather than general customer service. They're the ones who actually handle Form 2553 processing and can see submissions that other reps can't access. You did everything right the first time - don't let them make you feel otherwise. Stay persistent and document everything going forward!
Thank you so much for sharing your experience! It's incredibly reassuring to hear from someone who went through the exact same situation and came out successfully on the other side. Your detailed breakdown of what to include in the package is exactly what I needed to see. I'm definitely taking your advice about doing both methods simultaneously rather than one at a time. It sounds like their fax system has some serious reliability issues if they managed to lose your second submission too! The tip about referencing IRC Section 1362(b)(5) specifically is really valuable - having that legal citation seems much more authoritative than just saying "reasonable cause" generally. Your point about requesting written confirmation of the retroactive effective date is something I hadn't thought of but makes total sense for future protection. And knowing to ask specifically for the "Business Entity Control" department when calling will hopefully save me from getting bounced around between different customer service reps who all seem to have different (or no) information. The 5-6 week timeline you mentioned is really helpful for setting realistic expectations too. At this point I just want to get it resolved properly, even if it takes a bit longer. Thanks for the encouragement - it's easy to start second-guessing yourself when dealing with IRS processing issues, but you're right that the documentation proves I did everything correctly the first time!
One important thing nobody has mentioned - you need to be super careful about the pro-rata rule if you have ANY existing pre-tax money in ANY traditional IRA accounts (including SEP or SIMPLE IRAs). The backdoor Roth strategy really only works cleanly if you have zero pre-tax IRA money anywhere.
THIS! I got hit with an unexpected tax bill because I forgot about an old 401k that I had rolled into an IRA years ago. The pro-rata rule made my "tax-free" conversion partially taxable.
Great question about timing! I went through this exact scenario last year and here's what I learned: You're correct that you can report the full $7,000 on Form 8606 even if you only have a 1099-R for $4,000 at the time you file. The IRS expects you to report ALL contributions made for the tax year, regardless of when you received the supporting documents. A few key points to keep in mind: 1. Make sure to designate your March contribution as a "2024 contribution" when you make it (your broker should ask) 2. Keep detailed records of both contributions with dates and amounts 3. The 1099-R you receive for the March conversion will be for tax year 2025, so you'll report that conversion on next year's return I'd recommend making your additional contribution and conversion before mid-March to give yourself some buffer time before the 4/15 deadline. Also, double-check that you don't have any other traditional IRA balances that could complicate the pro-rata calculation. The key is being consistent and thorough with your record-keeping - the IRS cares more about accurate reporting than perfect timing of tax documents.
This is really helpful, thank you! I'm new to backdoor Roth contributions and was getting overwhelmed by all the timing considerations. Your point about designating the March contribution specifically for 2024 is crucial - I hadn't realized that was something I needed to explicitly tell my broker. Quick follow-up question: when you say "keep detailed records," what specific information should I be tracking beyond just dates and amounts? Should I be keeping screenshots of my broker confirmations or is there other documentation the IRS typically wants to see?
Alexis Robinson
I just went through this exact situation with over 12,000 crypto transactions for 2024. After trying several approaches, here's what ultimately worked best for me: First, don't panic - the IRS has well-established procedures for handling large volumes of crypto transactions, and you definitely don't need to print thousands of Form 8949 pages. I used a hybrid approach that saved me both time and money: 1. Downloaded all transaction data from my exchanges (some via API, others as CSV exports) 2. Used TaxBit to consolidate and calculate everything properly, including wash sale adjustments 3. Created a master Excel spreadsheet with columns matching Form 8949 exactly: Description of Property, Date Acquired, Date Sold, Proceeds, Cost or Other Basis, Adjustment Code (if any), and Gain or Loss The key formatting details that made my filing smooth: - Added "Supplement to Form 8949" as the header on every page - Included my name and SSN on each page - Used clear page numbering (Page X of Y) - Added a summary page at the end with grand totals On the actual Form 8949, I checked Box C in Part II ("Transactions not reported to you on Form 1099-B"), wrote "See attached supplement" in the description area, and entered my calculated totals on line 2. The whole process took me about 6 hours total (mostly waiting for API imports), versus what would have been weeks of manual work. My return was processed normally with no additional questions from the IRS. Feel free to ask if you need clarification on any part of this process - happy to help a fellow crypto tax sufferer!
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Savannah Weiner
ā¢This is exactly the kind of detailed walkthrough I needed to see! Thank you for breaking down the process so clearly. I have a couple of follow-up questions: When you mention using TaxBit for consolidation, how did it handle transactions between your own wallets (like transferring crypto from one wallet to another)? I have hundreds of these internal transfers mixed in with my actual trades, and I want to make sure they're not being counted as taxable events. Also, for the "Description of Property" column - did you use the specific coin names (like "Bitcoin" or "Ethereum") or did you include more detailed descriptions like exchange names or transaction types? I'm trying to figure out the right level of detail to include without making it overly complicated. Finally, about 6 hours total sounds almost too good to be true for 12,000+ transactions. Was most of that time spent on the initial setup and imports, or did you have to do significant manual review and corrections afterward?
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Liam Sullivan
ā¢Great questions! Let me address each one: For wallet-to-wallet transfers, TaxBit handled them correctly by recognizing them as non-taxable transfers rather than sales. The key is making sure your transaction data clearly shows the sending and receiving addresses belong to you. I had to manually tag a few wallets as "mine" in the system initially, but once that was done, it automatically filtered out internal transfers from taxable events. You'll still want to review this section carefully since misclassifying transfers as sales could significantly inflate your tax liability. For the Description of Property column, I kept it simple with just the coin names (Bitcoin, Ethereum, etc.) rather than including exchange details. The IRS primarily cares about what asset was traded, when, and for how much - not which specific exchange was used. Adding too much detail actually made the spreadsheet harder to read during my initial attempts. You're right to be skeptical about the 6-hour timeline! Most of that was indeed setup and automated imports (about 4 hours), but I did spend roughly 2 hours on manual review. The bulk of transactions imported cleanly, but I found maybe 50-60 that needed manual corrections - mostly from smaller exchanges with inconsistent CSV formats or missing cost basis data from older transactions. The time savings really comes from not having to manually enter 12,000+ rows of data. The automated wash sale calculations alone probably saved me 10+ hours of manual work, and that feature paid for the software cost several times over.
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Ethan Anderson
I'm dealing with a similar situation but with around 6,000 transactions. Reading through all these responses has been incredibly helpful! One thing I'm still unclear on though - when you attach your spreadsheet as a supplement to Form 8949, does it need to be printed and mailed with a paper return, or can you attach the Excel/PDF file if you're e-filing? I've been putting off filing because I wasn't sure about the electronic submission process for large attachments. My tax software (TurboTax) keeps crashing when I try to enter more than a few hundred transactions manually, so the attached spreadsheet approach seems like my best bet. Just want to make sure I can still e-file rather than having to mail everything in. Also, has anyone had experience with the IRS questioning the format or requesting additional documentation after submitting this way? I'm worried about getting a follow-up letter asking for more details or different formatting.
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Andre Lefebvre
ā¢Great question about e-filing vs paper filing! You can absolutely e-file with an attached spreadsheet supplement. When you e-file, you'll upload your spreadsheet as a PDF attachment along with your return - most tax software and tax preparers can handle this. The key is making sure your spreadsheet is saved as a PDF rather than leaving it as an Excel file for the electronic submission. TurboTax's crashing issue with large transaction volumes is super common - that's exactly why the attached spreadsheet method exists. Instead of trying to enter thousands of transactions into their system, you just enter the summary totals on Form 8949 and attach your detailed spreadsheet. Regarding IRS follow-up, I haven't personally experienced any issues, but from what I've seen in this community, the IRS rarely questions well-formatted spreadsheet submissions. The key is making sure your spreadsheet includes all the same information that would be on individual Form 8949 pages - date acquired, date sold, proceeds, cost basis, and gain/loss. As long as your math is correct and the format is clear, they typically process these without additional requests. One tip: when you create your PDF attachment, make sure it's clearly labeled and includes your SSN on each page. This helps the IRS processing center match it to your return efficiently.
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