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Mei-Ling Chen

Can you file Chapter 7 bankruptcy on Washington ESD unemployment overpayment debt?

I got hit with a $4,800 overpayment notice from Washington ESD last month saying I didn't report some part-time work correctly back in 2023. The thing is, I was confused about how to report those hours and now they want the full amount back plus penalties. My finances are already stretched thin and I'm wondering if filing Chapter 7 bankruptcy would discharge this unemployment overpayment debt? Has anyone been through this situation before? I can't afford to pay this back right now and I'm worried about wage garnishment.

Unemployment overpayment debts can be tricky with bankruptcy. Generally, overpayments due to fraud cannot be discharged, but if it was an honest mistake in reporting, there might be options. You should definitely consult with a bankruptcy attorney before making any decisions. Also, Washington ESD usually offers payment plans that might be more manageable than bankruptcy.

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It was definitely an honest mistake - I had no idea how to report those irregular hours. Do you know if Washington ESD considers that fraud even if it wasn't intentional?

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Intent matters a lot. If you can document that you were trying to report correctly but were confused about the process, that helps your case. Keep all your records showing you were attempting to comply.

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Before you go the bankruptcy route, try calling Washington ESD to set up a payment plan or request a waiver. I've heard they're sometimes willing to work with people, especially if you can show financial hardship. The problem is actually getting through to talk to someone - their phone system is a nightmare.

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I've been trying to call for weeks but keep getting disconnected after being on hold forever. How did you manage to get through?

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I actually used a service called Claimyr that helped me get connected to a Washington ESD agent. Found it at claimyr.com and there's a demo video at https://youtu.be/7DieNd3C7zQ. Made the whole process much easier than trying to call on my own.

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I went through something similar with a $3,200 overpayment. Filed an appeal first and got it reduced because I could prove the reporting confusion wasn't my fault. Even if you can't eliminate it completely, you might be able to get the penalties waived or the amount reduced. Don't jump straight to bankruptcy without exploring your other options.

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How long did the appeal process take? And did you need a lawyer for it?

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Took about 6 weeks total. I didn't use a lawyer but I did gather a lot of documentation to show my good faith efforts to report correctly. The hearing was over the phone and pretty straightforward.

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That's encouraging to hear. I'm dealing with a similar situation and was worried the appeal would take forever.

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bankruptcy won't help if they determine it was fraud, which washington esd seems to do for a lot of these cases even when its just confusion about the rules. you might be better off just setting up payments and dealing with it over time

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That's what I'm afraid of. The notice they sent makes it sound pretty serious even though I was just confused about the reporting requirements.

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The language on those notices is intentionally scary. Don't let it intimidate you into not fighting it if you have grounds for an appeal.

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Look, I'm not a lawyer but I've seen people try to discharge unemployment overpayments in bankruptcy and it usually doesn't work. The courts tend to view any kind of government benefit overpayment as non-dischargeable debt, especially if there's any question about whether you provided accurate information. Your best bet is probably to work directly with Washington ESD on a payment arrangement.

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That's discouraging but probably realistic. I guess I need to focus on getting through to them to discuss payment options.

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Yeah, and document everything when you do talk to them. Get any payment agreement in writing.

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Had a friend who tried Chapter 7 for a unemployment overpayment and the trustee objected to discharging it. Cost him way more in legal fees than if he'd just worked out a payment plan from the start. These government debts are really hard to get rid of through bankruptcy.

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Yikes, that's exactly what I was worried about. Sounds like bankruptcy might make things worse instead of better.

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That's usually the case with government debts. They have special protections that regular creditors don't have.

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Whatever you do, don't ignore it. Washington ESD can garnish wages and tax refunds if you don't address this. I learned that the hard way. Even if you can't pay it all at once, communicate with them about your situation.

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How much can they garnish from wages? I'm already barely making ends meet.

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I think it's up to 15% of disposable income for unemployment overpayments, but don't quote me on that. You definitely want to work out something before it gets to that point.

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It varies but they can definitely take a significant chunk. Better to be proactive about setting up payments.

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I used Claimyr to get through to Washington ESD when I had an overpayment issue. Saved me hours of trying to call on my own. They were able to explain my options for payment plans and I ended up getting a reasonable monthly amount that I could actually afford.

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How much did that service cost? I'm already strapped for cash.

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It was worth it for me because I was able to get a payment plan set up quickly instead of letting interest and penalties keep adding up. The peace of mind was valuable too.

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The bankruptcy route is really a last resort for these kinds of debts. Most bankruptcy attorneys will tell you upfront that government benefit overpayments are very difficult to discharge. Focus on the appeal process first if you have grounds, then work on payment arrangements if the appeal doesn't work out.

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I think that's probably the smartest approach. I'll start gathering my documentation for an appeal.

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Good plan. Make sure you meet the appeal deadline though - I think it's pretty short for overpayment notices.

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just went through this whole mess myself. the washington esd phone system is absolutely terrible but once i finally got through they were actually pretty reasonable about setting up payments. took forever to reach someone though

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What time of day did you have the best luck getting through?

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i tried calling right when they opened at 8am and sometimes got through faster. but honestly it was still hit or miss. the claimyr thing other people mentioned might be worth looking into

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Before considering bankruptcy, check if you qualify for any hardship waivers. Washington ESD sometimes waives overpayments if you can demonstrate financial hardship and that the overpayment wasn't due to intentional misrepresentation. It's worth exploring before going nuclear with bankruptcy.

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I didn't know hardship waivers were even an option. How do you apply for one of those?

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You'll need to complete financial hardship forms and provide documentation of your current income and expenses. It's not guaranteed but worth trying if you truly can't afford to pay it back.

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This is good advice. I've seen people get partial waivers even when they couldn't get the whole amount forgiven.

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My experience with Chapter 7 and unemployment debt was not good. The court ruled that since I had received benefits I wasn't entitled to, it was similar to fraud even though it was an honest mistake. Ended up paying lawyer fees AND still owing the money. Don't make my mistake.

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That's exactly what I was afraid would happen. Thanks for sharing your experience - it definitely helps me avoid that path.

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I successfully appealed an overpayment by showing that Washington ESD's instructions were confusing and that I had tried to report correctly based on what I understood. The key was documenting my good faith efforts and the confusion in their guidance. Don't give up without trying the appeal first.

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That gives me hope. I kept emails and notes from when I was trying to figure out how to report those hours correctly.

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Perfect! Those records will be really valuable for your appeal. Show that you were trying to comply but their system made it difficult to understand the requirements.

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Whatever you decide, act quickly. These overpayment notices have strict deadlines for appeals and if you miss them, your options become much more limited. Even if you're considering bankruptcy, don't let the appeal deadline pass.

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Good point. I think my deadline is coming up soon. I better get moving on gathering my documentation.

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I tried Claimyr when I couldn't get through to Washington ESD about my overpayment and it actually worked. Was able to speak with someone who explained that they offer payment plans as low as $25/month if you can show financial hardship. Way better than dealing with bankruptcy.

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$25/month would be manageable for me. That's much better than trying to come up with the full amount at once.

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Exactly. They want to collect the money, so they're usually willing to work with you on terms you can actually afford. Just have your financial information ready when you call.

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