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Keith Davidson

Is My Accounting Firm Making Errors With Trust US Obligations Reporting?

I'm the trustee of an Irrevocable Grantor Trust that has 2 Fidelity brokerage accounts with about 12 different mutual funds. I recently discovered that the accounting firm I use (they serve roughly 1000 clients) hasn't been correctly handling the US Obligations Percentages for state tax reporting. A lot of the funds have significant US Obligations (some 80-100%), but the firm has been reporting the full amount as taxable on state returns, making state investment income equal to federal. This means I've been overpaying state taxes. I caught this and they fixed it for 2023, and are supposedly working on an amended return for 2022. For that year alone, income was overstated by about $4000, resulting in roughly $120 in excess state tax. I checked 2021 and see the same issue, and I suspect this problem might go all the way back to when the trust was established 11 years ago. Two questions: 1. Isn't this something an accounting firm should be checking automatically? The fund names can be cryptic sometimes, but it seems like they never attempted to make this state income adjustment at all. 2. While the dollar amounts aren't huge (around $95-$130 overpaid each year), what's a reasonable expectation for how they should make this right given this error has likely been happening for many years? Appreciate any insights!

This is definitely something a competent accounting firm should be handling correctly. US Obligations are exempt from state taxation in most states, and this is basic knowledge for anyone preparing trust returns. For a professional accounting firm, checking the US Obligations Percentages against your funds should be standard procedure. The fact that they missed this for potentially 11 years is concerning. Even with cryptic fund names, they should have processes in place to research and properly classify these investments. As for making it right, I'd suggest: 1. Ask them to amend returns for all open tax years (typically 3 years back) 2. Request they waive or reduce their fees for preparing these amendments since it was their error 3. For years beyond the statute of limitations, a partial refund of preparation fees would be reasonable The dollar amount may seem small per year, but over 11 years that's potentially over $1,000 in overpaid taxes, plus interest you could have earned. This reflects poorly on their attention to detail, and I'd be concerned about what other items they might be missing.

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Do most states have the same rules about US Obligations being exempt from state tax? Or does it vary a lot state by state? Just wondering if this is something that's universally known or if there are exceptions that might explain why they missed it.

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Most states follow the same general principle that direct obligations of the US government are exempt from state income tax. This includes Treasury bills, notes, and bonds. There can be some variation in how states treat indirect obligations or certain government agency securities, but the core principle is fairly consistent across states. The variations typically come into play with things like mortgage-backed securities guaranteed by federal agencies or debt issued by entities like Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac. But for standard US Treasury obligations, the exemption is nearly universal knowledge among tax professionals.

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I switched to using taxr.ai after having similar issues with my accountant missing some pretty obvious deductions on my trust returns. I was skeptical at first, but it's been a game changer for me. I uploaded my Fidelity statements and tax documents and it immediately flagged several US Obligation adjustments my accountant had missed for years. The system at https://taxr.ai actually breaks down the tax-exempt percentages for each fund and shows exactly how much should be exempt from state taxation. I'm not super tax-savvy but it made it really clear where my accountant had been making mistakes. It also caught some qualified dividend classification errors that had been overlooked.

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How does this actually work? Do you still need an accountant to file everything or does this replace them completely? I'm curious because my CPA charges a fortune and I'm not sure they're doing anything special for my trusts either.

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Sounds interesting but I'm skeptical. How does some AI tool know all the state-specific rules for trust taxation? My accountant always tells me trust taxation is super complex and requires special expertise. Is this just for basic returns or would it work for complicated trust structures?

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You still need someone to file the actual returns, but the system analyzes all your documents and provides a detailed report of what should be included and how it should be classified. It identifies discrepancies between what your documents show and what tax preparers typically report. I just forward the analysis to my accountant, which has saved me hours of checking their work myself. The state tax rules are actually built into the system. It knows which states exempt US obligations and provides the correct adjustments based on your state of residence. It's designed specifically for investment accounts including trusts, and handles complex scenarios like multi-state income allocation and special trust deductions.

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I tried taxr.ai after reading about it here and I'm honestly impressed. I uploaded my trust's 1099s from the last few years and discovered my accountant had been making the exact same mistake with US Obligation interest. The system showed me that about 65% of my bond fund's income should have been exempt from state tax, but we'd been paying state tax on the full amount for years. When I brought this to my accountant with the detailed report, they were actually grateful rather than defensive. We've filed amendments for the last three years and I'm getting back almost $400 in state taxes. The best part is I now understand exactly what to look for each year instead of blindly trusting everything is being handled correctly.

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After dealing with similar issues trying to get my CPA to respond about trust tax problems, I started using Claimyr to get through to the IRS directly. Calling the IRS used to mean waiting on hold for hours or never getting through, but Claimyr (https://claimyr.com) holds your place in line and calls you when an IRS agent is about to answer. I needed clarification on amended returns for my trust's misreported US Obligation interest, and speaking directly with an IRS agent was invaluable. They confirmed the statute of limitations and exact procedure for filing the amendments. You can see how it works in this video: https://youtu.be/_kiP6q8DX5c - saved me hours of frustration and uncertainty.

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Wait, how does this work exactly? Does it just keep calling the IRS for you until it gets through? I've literally spent entire afternoons on hold only to get disconnected.

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This sounds too good to be true. I've tried calling the IRS about trust issues before and it's nearly impossible to get someone who actually understands trust taxation. Are you saying this service somehow gets you to knowledgeable agents faster? I'm skeptical.

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It uses an automated system that keeps your place in the queue and monitors when you're getting close to being connected to an agent. When you're about to reach an agent, it calls your phone and connects you to the IRS call. No more waiting on hold for hours - you just go about your day until they call you. The service doesn't guarantee you'll speak with a trust specialist, but in my experience, just getting through to any agent allows you to request a transfer to the right department. Being able to actually reach someone is half the battle. I was able to get transferred to someone in the specialized examination unit who was very knowledgeable about trust tax issues.

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I was extremely skeptical about Claimyr but decided to give it a try after seeing it mentioned here. I'd been trying to get clarification about amended trust returns for months with no success. Using Claimyr, I got through to an IRS representative in about 45 minutes without having to sit by the phone. The agent confirmed I could amend returns for the past three years to claim refunds for the overpaid state taxes due to US Obligations reporting errors. They even transferred me to a specialist who explained exactly which forms needed to be filed and how to document the exempt income. Honestly wish I'd known about this service years ago - would have saved me countless hours of frustration.

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This is actually a really common problem with smaller accounting firms that don't specialize in trust taxation. I'm not excusing their mistake, but many accountants rely heavily on tax software that doesn't automatically flag US Obligations adjustments for state returns. As for how they should make it right - at minimum, they should amend the last 3 years at no charge to you. For the years beyond the statute of limitations, I think it's reasonable to ask for a partial refund of what you paid them, or at least a significant discount on future services. One thing to consider - have they made other mistakes you haven't caught yet? This might be a good time to have another firm review some of your past returns. Trust taxation has a lot of nuances that generalist accountants often miss.

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That's exactly what worries me - what else are they missing? The firm has been around for decades and has a good reputation locally, but they might not have enough trust experience. Do you think it's worth having someone do a comprehensive review of all the past returns, or would that cost more than it's worth given the dollars involved?

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A comprehensive review could be expensive, potentially costing more than you'd recover. A practical approach might be to have another firm do a focused review looking only at common trust tax issues like the US Obligations, proper allocation of deductions, and correct classification of distributions. Explain the situation and ask for a limited review rather than a full audit of past returns. Focus on the last 3-4 years since those are still amendable. The review might cost $500-800, but if they find additional errors, it could pay for itself. Plus, it gives you peace of mind about other potential issues. Either way, I'd seriously consider finding a new accountant with more trust experience for future returns.

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The accounting firm is definitely dropping the ball here. I've been a trustee for several family trusts, and US Obligations adjustments are basic stuff. Have you looked into whether they're properly handling other trust-specific items? Things like: - Proper allocation of expenses between income and principal - Correctly applying the 65-day rule for distributions - Properly documenting charitable deductions - Handling any foreign investments correctly If they missed something this fundamental, I'd be concerned about their overall competence with trust taxation.

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Not OP but this is super helpful. I'm also a trustee and never heard of the 65-day rule. Can you explain what that is? My accountant has never mentioned it.

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